Should Spiders get Smaller?

Aaron · 23rd October 2007, 17:59

OK I have a question. Since launching the v3.0 6 or was it seven months ago we've moved a hell of a lot of them, and as I'm about to order a new production run of the PCBs I now have the chance to either do a simple production refinement OR I can take about another 2mm from each side, that would make it well and truely smaller than a Aussie 5c piece.

Pricing would remain the same and performance would not decrease.

The new batch will be RoHS compliant with all lead free components and solder. So you can chew on the Spider and not damage a developing brain.

Either way the update will become v3.1 until the release of v4 in the first quarter of 2008.

Writing this while sitting in an airport lounge, so apologies for the poor typing and erratic thought....

A.

jollyboss · 24th October 2007, 04:22

I'll suggest you something more...try to do an integrated rx/esc that fit iwaver/kyosho chassis,with your super fets,that can handle 2S lithium and big motors,and most of all has the standard pin for standard servo.
Then if you can build something similar,maybe on 40 Mhz,it should be great!!!
IMO there's less and less sense in upping to hobby-grade esc and continue to use standar 27 AM rx and that 4 wires servo...

henal · 25th October 2007, 05:05

im with jolly boss try to do some thing crazy like and rx/esc

but then again there are loads out there. so compeating with them would be hard.
so i think it might be a better choise to stick with a turbo and just making it better and better or even better use a drive circuit like nelly
as we all know that miniz xmods suffer from poor gate voltage so i think what might be a better choise is try to make a drive circuit

Spider 4 woud be better with a drive circuit and if you can fit in a voltage ragulator since ph2 has stoped making them and we all need some good turbos for the max proforumers

Pork_Hunt · 25th October 2007, 08:46

wow...
Save the shrink for v4.0

Aaron · 25th October 2007, 10:24

Thanks guys... I don't think I'll be designing a complete Rx replacement board any time soon however it's not impossible... 40Mhz is an interesting idea. The real "problem" is legality, 27MHz and 40MHz are legal for ground based in most/all countries, but in each country the unit is sold/hipped to I'd have to have the appropriate regulatory approval. The "c-tick" approval I have now only covers the gear we import and that was/is enough of a pain in the bum to get and administer.

If ph2t has stopped with MOSFET driver based turbos I will consider building one. I'm not bothered up until now because I've felt that ph2t and WoahNelly deserve the respect (and all the sales) that his hard development work brings/brought.

v4.0 could potentially add the MOSFET drivers to the board. v3.1 brings in at the very least on-board motor noise filter cap/s as a small refinement of the design, they just seem to make things more stable Rx wise on some models.

When I'm back in the ofice next week I'll start the final design drawings and we'll see where they take us...

A.

klims · 25th October 2007, 21:19

i would like to see some double sided spiders with mosfet drivers. thats the only thing i don't like on the nelly's. no offence ph2t, but they just seem to big.

Aaron · 6th November 2007, 11:09

I will draw up "Longchamp" which will be the basis for a new model of Turbo. "Longchamp" will be bigger than a v3.x but initially will be a 8 MOSFET board effectively a "stacked" Spider ideal for Xmods EVO.

The longer (by maybe 6-8mm) board design over the v3.x will give me enough space to consider implementation of the MOSFETs drivers on the underside. The topside of the "Longchamp" family will always be an 8 MOSFET layout so when/if MOSFET drivers make it into the design it will be a higher performance unit than the Nelly v1.3

"Longchamp" development tree should go something like this:

v1.0 Longchamp PCB with 8xMOSFETs for 2xSpider Performance
v2.0 Longchamp Evolvolution with MOSFET Drivers
v3.0 Longchamp Ultimate with MOSFET Drivers + Rx Power

Aaron · 6th November 2007, 11:19

Spider v3.1 design increment will be completed in the next few days/week. Design work on Spider v4.0 has started and will evolve the Spider Platform into it's smallest and lightest configuration.

It is very likely that v4.0 will be the final evolution of the Spider platform until new MOSFETs come available that will significantly improve performance.

Spider v4.0 will be up to 4mm narrower and 3mm shorter than the v3.0 layout. This will be pushing our PCB fabricator to their limits for being able to reliably cut the boards down to size so until we have production samples I will not quote exact measurements.

I feel that once we get down to the v4.0 size heat build up within the turbo will start being our primary problem as well as difficulties in manufacture that will increase pricing.

I have got some very very primitive ideas for a v5.0 that will be about the size of a bean but that's at least 12 months away.

A.

View Poll Results: Should the Spider Shrink or Not
Keep the v3.0 at it's current size and save the shrink for v4.0	1	14.29%
Shrink it right now!	4	57.14%
Don't change anything....	0	0%
I'd rather buy a Nelly	2	28.57%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

23rd October 2007, 17:59	#1
Aaron PostPimp Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canberra,ACT Posts: 2,696	Should Spiders get Smaller? OK I have a question. Since launching the v3.0 6 or was it seven months ago we've moved a hell of a lot of them, and as I'm about to order a new production run of the PCBs I now have the chance to either do a simple production refinement OR I can take about another 2mm from each side, that would make it well and truely smaller than a Aussie 5c piece. Pricing would remain the same and performance would not decrease. The new batch will be RoHS compliant with all lead free components and solder. So you can chew on the Spider and not damage a developing brain. Either way the update will become v3.1 until the release of v4 in the first quarter of 2008. Writing this while sitting in an airport lounge, so apologies for the poor typing and erratic thought.... A. __________________ Aaron "The buck stops here"

24th October 2007, 04:22	#2
jollyboss New Enthusiast Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Milano-Italy Posts: 73	I'll suggest you something more...try to do an integrated rx/esc that fit iwaver/kyosho chassis,with your super fets,that can handle 2S lithium and big motors,and most of all has the standard pin for standard servo. Then if you can build something similar,maybe on 40 Mhz,it should be great!!! IMO there's less and less sense in upping to hobby-grade esc and continue to use standar 27 AM rx and that 4 wires servo... __________________ There's some cool tuning in everyone...

25th October 2007, 10:24	#5
Aaron PostPimp Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canberra,ACT Posts: 2,696	Thanks guys... I don't think I'll be designing a complete Rx replacement board any time soon however it's not impossible... 40Mhz is an interesting idea. The real "problem" is legality, 27MHz and 40MHz are legal for ground based in most/all countries, but in each country the unit is sold/hipped to I'd have to have the appropriate regulatory approval. The "c-tick" approval I have now only covers the gear we import and that was/is enough of a pain in the bum to get and administer. If ph2t has stopped with MOSFET driver based turbos I will consider building one. I'm not bothered up until now because I've felt that ph2t and WoahNelly deserve the respect (and all the sales) that his hard development work brings/brought. v4.0 could potentially add the MOSFET drivers to the board. v3.1 brings in at the very least on-board motor noise filter cap/s as a small refinement of the design, they just seem to make things more stable Rx wise on some models. When I'm back in the ofice next week I'll start the final design drawings and we'll see where they take us... A. __________________ Aaron "The buck stops here"

6th November 2007, 11:09	#7
Aaron PostPimp Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canberra,ACT Posts: 2,696	New Turbo to Come! I will draw up "Longchamp" which will be the basis for a new model of Turbo. "Longchamp" will be bigger than a v3.x but initially will be a 8 MOSFET board effectively a "stacked" Spider ideal for Xmods EVO. The longer (by maybe 6-8mm) board design over the v3.x will give me enough space to consider implementation of the MOSFETs drivers on the underside. The topside of the "Longchamp" family will always be an 8 MOSFET layout so when/if MOSFET drivers make it into the design it will be a higher performance unit than the Nelly v1.3 "Longchamp" development tree should go something like this: v1.0 Longchamp PCB with 8xMOSFETs for 2xSpider Performance v2.0 Longchamp Evolvolution with MOSFET Drivers v3.0 Longchamp Ultimate with MOSFET Drivers + Rx Power __________________ Aaron "The buck stops here"

25th October 2007, 05:05	#3
henal New Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK London Posts: 52	im with jolly boss try to do some thing crazy like and rx/esc but then again there are loads out there. so compeating with them would be hard. so i think it might be a better choise to stick with a turbo and just making it better and better or even better use a drive circuit like nelly as we all know that miniz xmods suffer from poor gate voltage so i think what might be a better choise is try to make a drive circuit Spider 4 woud be better with a drive circuit and if you can fit in a voltage ragulator since ph2 has stoped making them and we all need some good turbos for the max proforumers

25th October 2007, 08:46	#4
Pork_Hunt Mini Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Horsham, Vic Posts: 354	wow... Save the shrink for v4.0

25th October 2007, 21:19	#6
klims Mini Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 342	i would like to see some double sided spiders with mosfet drivers. thats the only thing i don't like on the nelly's. no offence ph2t, but they just seem to big.

6th November 2007, 11:19	#8
Aaron PostPimp Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canberra,ACT Posts: 2,696	Spider v4.0 Spider v3.1 design increment will be completed in the next few days/week. Design work on Spider v4.0 has started and will evolve the Spider Platform into it's smallest and lightest configuration. It is very likely that v4.0 will be the final evolution of the Spider platform until new MOSFETs come available that will significantly improve performance. Spider v4.0 will be up to 4mm narrower and 3mm shorter than the v3.0 layout. This will be pushing our PCB fabricator to their limits for being able to reliably cut the boards down to size so until we have production samples I will not quote exact measurements. I feel that once we get down to the v4.0 size heat build up within the turbo will start being our primary problem as well as difficulties in manufacture that will increase pricing. I have got some very very primitive ideas for a v5.0 that will be about the size of a bean but that's at least 12 months away. A. __________________ Aaron "The buck stops here"