which is better for what i want?

[twizm]

in relation to my other thread on starting RC, ive boiled it down to a few contestants….

i doubt that ill be entering any racing clubs, because there arent any in my area (closest is about 45min away :() so im just looking for a street basher.

its come down to a TB02, TA04, stadium blitzer or stadium thunder kits. i would prefer on road, but theres plenty of stuff in my neighborhood to make a stadium truck alot of fun.

so which is the best value for money? ive found that buying aussie is probably not the way to go, my LHS wanted 400AU for the xanavi TB02!!:shock: luckily i found one on ebay for around 215AU inc. shipping, but im curious if that will get hit by customs/GST/etc (ive never ordered from OS before, so some advice here would be nice) and what will the extra costs be? id like an evoIII, but i dont think im going to get serious enough to need its extra features (and the TB02 wouldnt do too bad if one day i went to race at a meet or something)

so yeah, which would be the best for a casual street racer? stadium truck or tourer? which of those kits would YOU prefer?

[PandaBear]

Might want to consider the Desert Hound too, Tamiya’s latest all-new basher 4WD buggy. It’ll make a great backyard basher & shouldn’t be too expensive.

The Stadium trucks are 2WD only.

I wouldn’t run touring cars on anywhere but the track, ground clearance isn’t enough for even small pebbles & there’s exposed gears/belts to worry about.

[PandaBear]

Might want to consider the Desert Hound too, Tamiya’s latest all-new basher 4WD buggy. It’ll make a great backyard basher & shouldn’t be too expensive.

The Stadium trucks are 2WD only.

I wouldn’t run touring cars on anywhere but the track, ground clearance isn’t enough for even small pebbles & there’s exposed gears/belts to worry about.

[twizm]

how do the trucks handle on the road? are the bodies lexan or solid plastic?

i dont like buggys much, the style doesnt appeal to me.

im still leaning towards the TB02, just because ive got experience in driving tourers. although id love to launch a stadium truck off the gutters in my street….argh i cant decide

[twizm]

how do the trucks handle on the road? are the bodies lexan or solid plastic?

i dont like buggys much, the style doesnt appeal to me.

im still leaning towards the TB02, just because ive got experience in driving tourers. although id love to launch a stadium truck off the gutters in my street….argh i cant decide

[oldtamiyaphile]

Plenty of people run touring cars off road, look at the TB-01’s (02 as well I guess), TC3 Rally, HPI rally etc. IMO, rally cars are the best.

Look great, great speed, and can handle grass, low curbs and small jumps fine.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Plenty of people run touring cars off road, look at the TB-01’s (02 as well I guess), TC3 Rally, HPI rally etc. IMO, rally cars are the best.

Look great, great speed, and can handle grass, low curbs and small jumps fine.

[PandaBear]

All current crop of Tamiyas have lexan shells, with exception of BlackFoot Extreme and the new Super ClodBuster (might not arrive Oz).

There are guys who have converted their EvoIIIs into offroad buggies, but I suspect they’ll soon be having some problems with the diffs.

EvoIII/TB02 diffs have plastic outdrives & plastic gears, they are built lightweight for electric onroad application only.

TB01 was based on TG10, with chunky huge metal diffs so it’ll take the bashing. Tamiya sells option “lightweight” plastic versions and warns you not to use them in a rally or nitro car.

There’s also a new Touareg (lexan body) on a CrossCountry chassis, but this also might not make it into Oz.

[PandaBear]

All current crop of Tamiyas have lexan shells, with exception of BlackFoot Extreme and the new Super ClodBuster (might not arrive Oz).

There are guys who have converted their EvoIIIs into offroad buggies, but I suspect they’ll soon be having some problems with the diffs.

EvoIII/TB02 diffs have plastic outdrives & plastic gears, they are built lightweight for electric onroad application only.

TB01 was based on TG10, with chunky huge metal diffs so it’ll take the bashing. Tamiya sells option “lightweight” plastic versions and warns you not to use them in a rally or nitro car.

There’s also a new Touareg (lexan body) on a CrossCountry chassis, but this also might not make it into Oz.

[twizm]

now im thinking i can bush bash a TB02… the most it would be doing would be grass and very packed dirt, so it might be ok for that. but as usual, if you had a car that could take what you were throwing at it, plus more (truck or buggy) itd be more suited.

im just worried about buying a stadium truck and destroying the tyres when i go on-road.

question: can you take the drive shaft out of the TB and make it rwd?

[z-beam]

“There’s also a new Touareg “

i saw the v10 turbo diesel version (real life) pulling a combine harvester on tv the other week. the best offroader in my mind at the moment…

i know the curved gutters you mean, i used to use ’em as jumps for my bmx when i was younger around my local town. if your gonna get something to do that get a truck! something that is built to jump…

(not that i know a thing about larger than 1/32 scale)

[PandaBear]

If you run offroad tyres on tarmac yes your rubber spikes
will disappear faster than icecubes in Hades.

Then you’re left with flat rubber, which probably grips better
than spikes on tarmac… but then they’ll be useless offroad. 🙂

Best to decide what exactly you want.

Sure you can take a touring car to go rallying, like they do
on the WRC. But don’t expect to have anything left at the end }:)]
… on WRC they rebuild the car just about every stage!!
(even Looks like they bring all new cars to every race!!!?)

Quote:

“There’s also a new Touareg “

i saw the v10 turbo diesel version (real life) pulling a combine harvester on tv the other week. the best offroader in my mind at the moment…

Unfortunately Tamiya’s Touareg is the Paris-Dakar racer, so that’s
as related to the retail SUV as are the Pajero Evolutions, hehehe.

Doesn’t take much to pull a combine though… they might weigh a
tonne or 2 but they’ve still got wheels. On a flat hard surface
you can manage to push it hard enough to make it budge.
(take the handbrake off first!!)

[twizm]

alright, the final decider….how fast is a stadium truck compared to a tourer?
stock of course.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Quote:

EvoIII/TB02 diffs have plastic outdrives & plastic gears, they are built lightweight for electric onroad application only.

TB01 was based on TG10, with chunky huge metal diffs so it’ll take the bashing. Tamiya sells option “lightweight” plastic versions and warns you not to use them in a rally or nitro car.

So all off road cars have metal gears? Last I checked Clodbuster had all plastic gears, as does Wild Willy/ Twin Detonator (etc), Manta Ray series etc.

I’ve been running various TA-XX’s off road for years and never so much as lost a tooth, even with 13t motors and monster tyres.

A 540 powered truck will do about 25, a tourer will do over 30.

Quote:

so that’s as related to the retail SUV as are the Pajero Evolutions, hehehe

.

Pajero Evo is a road car, based on the SWB version. They also take them rallying, and of course, that’s a whole new story.

Edited by – oldtamiyaphile on 08 April 2004 13:27:10

[PandaBear]

Quote:

TB-01’s (02 as well I guess)

you *guess*… yeah, thanks.

That’s why I stated TB01/EvoI&II drivetrain are based upon the
TG10/TGR, these are Nitro cars so the electric can survive rallying.
So Tamiya can sell TB01s (with metal gears) as rally cars.

But EvoIII/TB02 is an entirely different beast.
Complete brand new drivetrain.

Plastic gears + gears built to the minimum strength
needed to survive electric touring, that’s what EvoIII/TB02 is
and that’s why it excels on the racetrack – no excess fat.

If anybody wants to take it outside its design intentions then that’s
your own sole perogative. Do whatever you want with your own toys.

Just don’t whinge if it gives up ghost earlier than your expectations;
certainly Tamiya didn’t design the EvoIII drivetrain for offroad use.

[twizm]

still quite perplexing for me, i think ill go ask some more questions at the hobby store, see what they stock and what they can get me for hopups etc

[jamiekulhanek]

dont totally underestimate plastic gears, my 1/10 nitro bugy has ’em and they can deal with more power than the motor can put out…plastic gears get ruined quick by debris though.

belt drives….unless it’s sealed forget offroad use….

[oldtamiyaphile]

Quote:

There are guys who have converted their EvoIIIs into offroad buggies, but I suspect they’ll soon be having some problems with the diffs.

*Suspect*, thanks :p Just the fact that they were sucsessful in running bigger tyres and tackling big jumps without immediate failure tells you the EVO3 drive train is pretty durable. A rally car runs small tyres and doesn’t have the clearance/ travel for off road track jumps.

Quote:

so Tamiya can sell TB01s (with metal gears) as rally cars.

Again I have to take exception to the idea that you need metal gears to go off road. 90% of off roaders have only a metal idler gear, some not even that. If you’ve owned a Manta Ray (chances are you have), you’ll know that the alu idler is the first to go (well, after the pinion), and in fact, the plastic idler from the TA01/2 lasts longer.

Tamiya also use plastic dogdone ends on just about everything, and again, no problems with them cracking. In fact, they’re a good replacement for Kyosho (Nitro included) and HPI’s all metal ‘bones that tend to bend easily. Never broken a plastic ended dogbone.

The stresses on a rally car aren’t that much greater than they are on a tourer. The tyres are the same size, you can’t tackle huge jumps because you’ve only got so much supension clearance and travel, and finally, you have less traction so in that regard at least, drive train loads are lower.

Millions of cars run off road everyday just fine running plastic gears and other critical plastic drive train components.

Quote:

Sure you can take a touring car to go rallying, like they do
on the WRC. But don’t expect to have anything left at the end }:)]
… on WRC they rebuild the car just about every stage!!
(even Looks like they bring all new cars to every race!!!?)

How is this any different to F1, FIA GT, even NASCAR?

Quote:

If you run offroad tyres on tarmac yes your rubber spikes
will disappear faster than icecubes in Hades.

Then you’re left with flat rubber, which probably grips better
than spikes on tarmac… but then they’ll be useless offroad.

Best to decide what exactly you want.

Exactly why Tamiya make rally blocks.

I guess if the gears MUST last the life of the car, then only buy one that has all metal gears, otherwise, buy what ever you like best and just have fun. Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t take your car off road just because it has plastic gears.

Even unsealed belt drives, how many years did Yokomo and Schumacher win race after race with completely unseal belt drive trains? You’ll need to do more maintenance obviously, and given the number of seal or semi seal cars out there, I wouldn’t recommend it, but lets not say it can’t be done.

[betty.k]

i’m outta my league here, but regarding on vs offroad vehicles, i’d choose something that leaned towards offroad, as i think it would be relatively simple to convert to road use with suspension adjustments and a tyre/wheel change.

an extreme example would be taking a hummer and a porche, set them up for offroad and see who wins. the hummer would go more places and be strong enough to withstand the abuse, whereas a porche may go faster, but it will lack the torque to negotiate tricky sections and possibly even suffer a catastrophic failure. then set them up for road use and put them on a track. the porche will be a clear winner, hugging the track like rails and have a killer top speed. the hummer will handle far worse at speed and be heavy. but both cars are unlikely to suffer a serious failure under normal (upright!) driving conditions.
so if i was buying a real rc i’d just want it for fun, not serious racing. i’d go for a stadium racer type buggy and buy a full set of different shock springs and a set of road tyres/wheels that can be easily switched. adjustable shock position would be essential and if you prefer the “street” look you can always buy different bodies. and different motors and gear ratios would be fairly simple to install.
like i said, i dunno much about any type of rc other than bits, that’s just my 2c! maybe it helps, maybe not!:8ball:

[oldtamiyaphile]

Didn’t Porsche win the Paris-Dakar with the 959? Didn’t the US Hummer Team fail dismally many years later? (As have all of the US Baja/SCORE etc trucks).

[Even a Hyundai Excel will be a Hummer on road]

One thing about buying a “real” off road vehicle is you’ll have to go a long way to find challenging terrain. Rally/Tourers (for me anyway) are great for yard/street use without having to find an empty construction yard.

[PandaBear]

Quote:

Again I have to take exception to the idea that you need metal gears to go off road.

err… No.
Never said you *need* metal gears for offroad.

Just been saying that Tamiya’s TB01 rallycars get metal diff gears,
whilst only road-going TB01s get the lightweight plastic gears.

You tell me Why…? :question:

Quote:

Tamiya also use plastic dogdone ends on just about everything, and again, no problems with them cracking. …. Never broken a plastic ended dogbone.

Christ!!!

We have broken EVERY plastic dogbone end off everything that’s got it.
On the TL01, FF02 you name it…. hate them like the plague.

How on earth do you manage never to break them? :shock::shock:

Quote:

…Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t take your car off road just because it has plastic gears.

Umm… didn’t say EVERY car, I said wouldn’t try it
with something that inherited an EvoIII drivetrain.

That’s One specific model – I did not generalise.

‘Cos mainly if you don’t know what you’re looking for when building
the EvoIII, it can skip & strip its bevel gears… and that’s just
with on-road running crazy mod motors.

Jarr it hard enough with a frontal hit, & it’ll strip also.

Loose surfaces will be less traction = ‘stress’ on the drivetrain
but if you’re doing jumps & hard landings, that’ll still jarr the drivetrain.

But on the other hand, a less-“Pro” tourer like a TL01 has a
drivetrain that’s totally plastic gears, but Tamiya knew to
build them real beefy & chunky to suit its intended market.

You can take a TL01, give it buggy wheels (Stadium Raider & Bajas)
and the transmission copes with the offroad work just fine.
An excellent bashing mobile, it takes heaps of abuse.

And I think Stadium Raider comes with 100% metal dogbones… :p

[oldtamiyaphile]

OK then 😀

But, the TG10 gears are really coarse pitch, I can’t imagine striping plastic versions. The TC3 has simular pitch plastic gears, and is one of the most durable cars I own. Unless the Plastic gears are also much finer pitch, I don’t see a problem.

I don’t know how I’ve never managed to break a plastic ended dogbone. I even put some out of an FF-01 into a Kyo Nitro tourer, and they’re still fine.

Then again, I always hear stories floating around about this or that ‘breaking easily’, the only car I’ve got with a bit of a problem with is the HPI NMT (the electric has never broken anything), where the front A arms tend to break in light hits or rough landings. I’ve also heard of stripped gears and the like, but mine’s been pretty well behaived (bent dogbones are to be expected of all HPI and Kyos).

The only all metal ‘bones I’ve seen are on the M chassis’ for some reason… (don’t have a Stadium Raider).

[twizm]

alright, i went to my LHS today and had a chat with the guys up there, and ive settled on a tourer. they backed up what oldtamiyaphile said, in that for light offroad use the TB02 will survive aslong as you give it as much ride height its got. and with tourers it allows you to drive a wider variety of ‘cars'(i mean you can put on skyline, wrx, silvia, etc shells on it). im going to buy the TB02 first, then ill probably end up getting a stadium thunder kit (unless someone can suggest a better stadium truck) the LHS said that i could just take the radio gear out of one and put it in the other seeing as i cant use both at once anyway, is this right?

all this posting has helped lots, thanks guys!

[jamiekulhanek]

Yup usually all 1/10 radio gear is interchangeable…..but can be a pain to do, and you will end up buying another radio gear set…

Dont bother with stepped resistive speed controllers, get an esc.

How in gods name do you bend a dogbone???

The only damage i have managed to do to my car is bend the aluminium chassis….which takes 5 seconds to fix :clown: but I think a brace is needed from front to rear…

[twizm]

yeah esc is the path i was gonna go anyway

in the end ill probably get a 2nd radio set for the truck, but not until i get the tourer to the stage i want it. then i upgrade the truck alot:evil:

[oldtamiyaphile]

Some dogbones just bend, usually as a result of the suspension bottoming out on the dogbone. Engine torque can do it to. HPI and Kyo bones are known for being too weak.

Also look at the TT-01, it’s probably more durable, not to mention that it’s cheaper.

If you want a Tamiya truck, look at the Twin Detonator (4wd and twin motors = :D). I wouldn’t get a Stadium Thunder, it’s just too ‘entry level’. A DT should outrun everything off road, twice the power and all wheel traction, and it’s not super heavy like a Maxx or Clod.

[twizm]

ill look into the twin detonator, but i think itll cost too much. i dont want to spend alot on a car that i might not have time to use in the future.

[PandaBear]

Quote:

How in gods name do you bend a dogbone???

Whack something hard with your steering at full lock.

‘Bones can bend, the drivecups can break, the diff outdrives
can also lose pieces or most expensive… wreck a CVD uni. :dead:

[PandaBear]

Quote:

ill look into the twin detonator, but i think itll cost too much. i dont want to spend alot …

An “entree” version of the TwinDet will be appearing soon,
called the Mighty Bull. Its 1 motor 2WD; half a TwinDet.
MightyBull has a lexan body and will be an XB-Pro RTR complete
with the CPR ESC & radio.

Same chassis also comes as kit in a hardshell “Blackfoot Extreme”.

[oldtamiyaphile]

I just wish the gearboxes accepted regular (TA-0X) ball diffs…

[PandaBear]

Do they use the WR02 (Wild Willy 2) geardiff? :question:

[oldtamiyaphile]

Yup, same gearbox.

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