best motor. torque vs rpm

[Z-Nagual]

how good is the tamiya plasma dash motor?
does it have neo magnets?
is it beter than pn so3?
have any aussies ordered stuff from dinball?
i only have a bankcard and im wondering what the best alternative
payment option is (from Aus).
If anyone can help me with some answers I would appreciate it.
I think torque is best. high torque+ high gear= high speed.

[Tim]

Q1)Tamiya Plasma Dash motor is v. good i have one
Q2)No it doesn’t have Neo Magnets it has Tamiya black Magnets
Q3)Yes it is better then the pn s03 (Geo u know it i raced ya b4:smiley2:
Q4)I’m pretty sure many ausmicro members has ordered from dinball
Q5) High torque + high pinion gear would give you higher max speed but at the same time you lose acceleration and less run time

Hope it helps:smiley2:
*note you would need a turbo or FETS to run a plasma dash or you would see your stock FETS fry.

[Tim]

Q1)Tamiya Plasma Dash motor is v. good i have one
Q2)No it doesn’t have Neo Magnets it has Tamiya black Magnets
Q3)Yes it is better then the pn s03 (Geo u know it i raced ya b4:smiley2:
Q4)I’m pretty sure many ausmicro members has ordered from dinball
Q5) High torque + high pinion gear would give you higher max speed but at the same time you lose acceleration and less run time

Hope it helps:smiley2:welcome to the board
*note you would need a turbo or FETS to run a plasma dash or you would see your stock FETS fry.

[Z-Nagual]

tamiya black? i thought that neo’s are best.
don’t so3’s have neo’s? if so what actually makes the plasma dash better?

[ph2t]

one big, FAT commy…..

[Z-Nagual]

I see. I didn’t think it would make that much of a difference. If I ever get that nelly off you what motor would you recomend? I raced my cousin’s brand new 1/18 scale mini-r maloo with my mini-z with nothing but an x-speed and a small turbo and still whooped him. Does anyone know of some 1/18 motor upgrades?

[dgs73]

Plasme Dash; no neos, can be added, better than PN03? Never used one, but some of the Sydney guys use and like em… I dont hold a credit card either, so purchases online can be hard. There are ways around this however…

[Z-Nagual]

where did all of you dudes get your plasma dash? I’ve been ringing different hobby shops and apparently the aust. tamiya wholesaler doesn’t even have them. what a pickle I’m in. aus rc suppliers are pathetic.

[Z-Nagual]

“I’ll be back”

[Tim]

Plasma Dash are faster because they have big fat commy as ph2t had said and mainly because it only has 27t on the armature compare 40 something on an x-speed. I’m not sure if Neo magnets are the best but they are good i got a pair from ph2t:D. The Tamiya black magnets just came with the motor also known as ‘stock’ magnets. Less torque i guess. I got my Plasma Dash from Hong Kong i think i saw Plasma Dash before in Australia but that was a while back.

From what i heard from Geo-z S03 costs a bit because it has a bbcan, neo magnets and possibly carbon brushes.

[betty.k]

gotta be careful with terminology like “better” and “best”. it depends what you want the motor to do really. neo mags are great for torque but reduce top speed. my plasma dash is fast but lacks real punch off the line. i’m thinking a happy medium would be a plasms rewound to 35t.

this motor business is very involving with many different options and tweaks you can do, i’m just venturing into this area now. i have a headache:8ball:

[jamiekulhanek]

If you want good speed you need torque and RPM, torque x RPM = Power.

The plasma is the best engineered motor I have ever seen, the internals are like a small 1/10 mod motor rather than a mini Z motor.

[ph2t]

true, it seems that to get the ultra high speed setup, you need brushes that are 90deg normal to the commutator. with the commy being 200% fatter in the plasma, the custom endbell it uses seems to be the proper solution.

with the other mini-4wd motors, the commy is not as fat, therefore enabling the angeled brushes to sit closer to centre.

I’ve read though that some of the ATOMIC series of motors use the same endbell as the plasma cans. There’s even a version that has one silver brush and one carbon brush. What’s the deal there?

Also, thank’s to betty’s testing he has found that the Tamiya Torque Tuned motor is faster than the x-speed! Give it’s a 3rd of the price of an x-speed, that sounds like a great deal.

ph2t.

[bithed]

…Fellas coulda told you the TAMIYA Torque Tuned was faster…Had one in my monster for a while…I do Plama Dash’s for 12 USD shipped anywhere, Ultra Dash’s for 10 USD anywhere and Torque Tuned’s for 8 USD anywhere 🙂 PLUS you get gum unless you live in Singapore 🙂

[dgs73]

hey hey… giving away my gum supply? Hmp. Found the Torque Tuned to be pretty good…

[bithed]

…The word has been spread mate…your gum will start showing up on the bottom all the best seats in sydney soon 🙂

…BTW…Just dont swallow it cos apparently gum takes 7 years to be removed from your system 🙂

…Might be a Japanese habit but we wrap our gum in the foil wrapper each piece comes in before we throw it out 🙂

[dgs73]

that’s what I wind up doing… less mess… got a present hesding to you in the next half an hour or so Bit…:)

[jamiekulhanek]

I was quite concerned when i opened a torque tuned motor up….

There is NO rear bushing and NO carbon brushes, just copper wipers….

You should immediately switch to carbon brushes, this should see an improvement and A HUGE increase in lifespan.

The fact that it has no rear bushing doesn’t matter, just lube it frequently, and you should be right.

[bithed]

…from what i VERY BASICALLY understand Jamie THAT is the difference between Torque Tuned and an Ultra Dash…My local electronics guy who did my turbo, RECOMMENDS the ULTRA DASH because it is closer to a REAL motor than the TORQUE…

[ph2t]

that’s strange, so far all the Tamiya 4wd motors that HAVE brushes (confirmed by me) are:

Plasma Dash (Custom end mount)
Power Dash
Ultra Dash

Non-Brush motors:

Torque Tuned
Rev Tuned

cheers,

ph2t.

Edited by – ph2t on 15 July 2004 12:58:09

[jamiekulhanek]

Notice a pattern??

Dash = Carbon Brush

Tuned = Copper wiper

Add Rev Tuned to the list ph2t, I love that motor, only because of the purple endbell, never run it yet, its a bit more powerful than the torque tuned.

[jamiekulhanek]

in fact it seems that all the motors are made by mabuchi……….except the god of all motors, the plasma dash which is tamiya.

[ph2t]

I want to get the Jet Dash, it is the only motor out of all of ’em that has 22 for it’s torque (whatever that means). Even the plasma is only 20. See the following table:

I ripped it off this site:

http://www.geocities.com/warrior4wd/tips.htm

Cheers,

ph2t.

[bithed]

…Ill grab you one at some stage mate 🙂

[jamiekulhanek]

post number 2900! w00t!!!

22 opposed to 20 isn’t a huge difference, and the plasma revs higher anyway….interested to see the difference though.

[ph2t]

every little bit counts man.

*improve current sink through nelly
*improve contact to commutator though better brushes
*decrease the resistance of the coils through fatter wire
*increase the magnetic field utilising strong ferrite magnets
*focus the field intensity using pattern wound coils (if you can, I still suck donkey balls at this)
*ball bearing can and end cap.

All of these things are small on their own but put ’em all together and……:shock:

well, you get my drift… :approve:

ph2t.

[betty.k]

well, i did some motor schooling last night (bust one open kids, steep learning curve!)
i opened up the torque tuned motor and got rid of the copper brushes, the can and end cap (shame to lose the pretty orange one:sad:). i then put all the guts inside the stock i waver can. it has a metal bushing and copper brushes so it’s sorted! i can’t verify it accurately but this motor seemed more punchy and slightly quicker than the x speed i have, so it’s gonna gather dust for now!
as for my p dash, it was much faster, but lacked the punch on take off that i was hoping for. so i popped it open, removed the wire and wound it to 35 turns. now it’s really kicking even with bigger pinions. i think now that 35t coupled with the strong (but not neo’s) ferrite mags is a nice combination. neo mags are only really good for high torque, low speed applications.:8ball:

[merc-blue]

yeh but betty high torque give u more pinion options instead of having to run a 9T on high speed motor with the torque u can run a 12-13T adn overall (specialy with PD and NEOS) you should have plenty of speed and punch

[ph2t]

yeah but the thing is merc is that the nice linear throttle control goes to shit!

you lost about 1/3 of your bottom end in acceleration, the neo magnets are at times too strong!

ph2t.

[merc-blue]

lol who cares about the throttle… all we want is to go fast.. i wreaked a servo trying to go full speed down the “pit lane” at TFTR … and how often do u control ur speed with a 1:24 on a 1:10 track the corners are big enough that u dont really need to much

[betty.k]

it’s important to know how much is too much. high torque is wasted when enough torque is fine. i want my car to leap off the line, but if it just spins the wheels it’s useless. and the trade off with high torque is a reduced top speed.

and try telling leon or jamie to drive around templestowe at full throttle. i’ve seen jamie try…..:8ball:

[Jay-Z]

i`m pretty happy with my Xspeed/single turbo combo especially in relation to reliability but would like to know how much better my Xspeed would be with a bearing case?? is it worth doing to an Xspeed or am i better off with another motor?

[dgs73]

keep that motor going, get a b.b. canned one down the track… let me know when you do, I would’nt mind checking one out… :p

[merc-blue]

really i can get the mini around without taking my finger off full throttle

[dgs73]

’tis the only way to drive em, mate… edge of ya seat racing!!:smiley2:

[merc-blue]

yepo DGS if it doesnt fly then die its not lived its life

[Z-Nagual]

I wanna see my front wheels lift off the ground. I once put an extra 4, yes 4 batteries in my mini-z (8 all up!). Unbelievable ‘punch’ ludicris top speed but after 2 mins the steering would go absolutely insane and well…. I went and bought a new mini-z the next week.

[Z-Nagual]

I was using a motor that was meant for an aerobird.

[jamiekulhanek]

8 cells??? um…what??

[dgs73]

Quote:

8 cells??? um…what??

yeah, uh… what he said…
where are you in Aus, dood?

[Z-Nagual]

I’m in newcastle. And yeah I know it’s insane but thats the whole point. You should have seen it. It was the ugliest thing i’ve ever seen. I cut a rectangle in my old viper bonnet had them all sticking out the front. and had to take the rear window out to fit the motor in. Had to mount the motor diagonally so the pinion could reach the diff.

[Z-Nagual]

It was dragster inspired. cars that are only meant to run for a few seconds. It fliped as soon as you turned though. At first I had the batteries sitting on top of the motor which made it do insane wheelies but it was just plain impracticle.

[Z-Nagual]

Don’t tell me no ones tried that before.

[merc-blue]

yeh i think they were saying about the electronics not handleing that much… any ways if u have the cash to chop bodys like that you want to give me one.. or swap one for a mini shell

[Z-Nagual]

most of my shells have been custom. 1/24th and 1/25th scale model kits. I cant really afford it but I manage somehow. Whats worse is screwing up the electronics as I did with the 8 cell shenanigan. I’m in the process of getting a new mini-z (my 3rd) cos I tested a 20 turn motor(0.4mm wire) which did pretty much the same thing as the 8 cell. fried the reciever or whatever.

[jamiekulhanek]

Dude there are other ways of doing this,

You need:

-Whoa Nelly/FET mod
-Good, low turn 130 size motor

[Jay-Z]

forget the 8 cells, i`m ataching a whipper snipper engine to my Z, LOL!! so Z-Nagual, we going to see you down at meadowbank some time?

[Z-Nagual]

I should be getting my nelly + brand new z on monday or tuesday. Ordered motor + magnets etc from Hong Kong which will take god knows how long. Where’s Meadowbank?(sorry, I’m an idiot).
As for the whippersnipper NOW YOUR THINKING. LOL. I’m going to do electronics at tafe so maybe one day I’ll figure out how to do 8 cells, but for now I’m only an amature with high aspirations. LOL.

[merc-blue]

the one that died casue of the high current draw motor can be fixed if you replace the drive fets

[Z-Nagual]

As in the fets that are connected to the servo? or the stock ones at the back? (I’m using an external turbo at the moment} piggyback esc I suppose you could call it? I’m sure the fets In my turbo are ok.

[Z-Nagual]

As I said before I’m an ammature

[merc-blue]

yeh that would work the fets in the turbo have basically replaced the blown fets in the pcb.
and no not a piggy bak ESC. the fets arent a ESC there a componenet of the ESC circutry.. but yes the main part

[Z-Nagual]

By the way, is the circuit out of an overland any different to a racer? Just out of curiosity.
And also if by drive fets you mean the ones that ‘drive’ the motor does that mean if I took them out and put a Nelly in would it fix the problem? The mini-z works with the controller 20cm’s away from it but thats the totality of it’s range right now.

[Z-Nagual]

the turbo I’ve got right now does’nt replace originals. I think it just takes the extra load. Its not the same as nelly which replaces them all together. The car still goes crazy with or without the turbo ive got now.

[Z-Nagual]

Crazy as in not properly

[merc-blue]

oh ok.. yeh they work the same as a stack.. yeh nelly would fix it.. and i dont know if there is a difference between OL and racer electronics

[ph2t]

when we say “Drive fets” we mean the “drivetrain mosfets”, yes, we are talking the mosfets that power the motor.

The steering mosfets are located at the opposite end of the PCB. The four wires that goto the front steering servo are soldered onto these mosfets.

The electronics (in principle) between ALL models of mini-Z are the same EXECPT the mr-02 and madforce. These two models have the brake function which is great! Saved my madforce many a time using the brake……

You range issue won’t be fixed with replaced drivetrain mosfets. Sounds like you’ve shorted the arial at some stage.

I’ve had nelly runing on 6 cells with a hot motor no problems….

Note: Short driveways and busy roads don’t mix….

ph2t.

[Z-Nagual]

I’ve just spent hours trying to swap the servo fets off one of my circuits with the apparently screwed up drive fets and now I find out it probably won’t help any way. aaarrgghh. Oh well good soldering practice. I need a smaller tip cos I’m frustrated to the point of random acts of violence right now.

[Z-Nagual]

busy roads. lol. I have no where close by to test my z, Exept for a busy road. I wait for cars to round the corner and drag them up the road. Should see their faces. ha. Priceless. Until one day when I was totally oblivious to cars coming the OTHER way. duh. Commodores and mini-z’s don’t mix. my dreams (I dream about mini z’s) were shattered.

[Z-Nagual]

to pieces

[Z-Nagual]

Hey ph2t I’m not quite clear as to where nelly’s black and red wires are soldered. Do you have to detatch the wires that go from the batteries to the circuit board, and attatch nelly’s red and black wires straight to the batteries?

[ph2t]

nah, you attach the power wires (from nelly) to where the power wires from the PCB goto. ie: the two battery teminals that the PCB power wires are connected to.

[merc-blue]

yeh you basically double up the power cables.. man i didnt mean that it would fix the range i meant it would fix the fet/turbo issue you have…. sorry for the confusion.. technically otu could fix the range… but i think the mini-z board has smd inductors (the things that work out the range basicaly) and it would be a real bitch to find the blow ones (most likely one or two primary ones) then replace them (with smd u gotta get smd inductors.. which probly not gonna happen) or run some fine wire off to normal inductors.. (also finding the valuse will be had.. unless u have a DMM)

[Z-Nagual]

Ok. thanks for info dudes. I just hope my soldering skills are up to scratch.
I’ve pretty much rooted my other bits. I just hope my new one doesn’t suffer the same fate.
Later.

[Author]

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