“pattern winding” motors.. what s tha dilly yo?

[ph2t]

I ve heard that pattern wound motors are the best on the market. I ain t gonna fork out $65USD for an NML motor to find out how good this pattern wound system is. Unfortuately no-one knows much about this method of winding or they just don t want to share!!:evil:

Info on the internet is pretty slim as well. I did find this bit of info though from this site http://www.nomac.nl/ec/orion-faq/motorfaq.htm

The latest technology in winding as used in Team Orion Pro modified motors is the pattern winding system. With this system the wires are perfectly parallel wounded without crossing and if necessary build up into a pyramid so the available space is used the most efficient way possible. This will reduce the length of the wires and the resistance even more which increases the performance and the repeatability of that performance as, which is very logic, with this system each motor will have the same amount of wire on the armature. Of course this is very good news for you as racer as that means that every new Team Orion Pro Modified motor you buy will have the same quality of winding!

This is abviously talk about a 540 sized motor. The principle is the same though.

Anyone else know much about pattern winding armatures?

Cheers,

ph2t.

[SausaGe_LinK]

I think this may have more to do with the Flat wire motors ?

[PandaBear]

ph2t:- suggest you take all that promotional hoo-haa as an overdose of the marketing hubris.

There are only 2 ways of winding a comm – its either crossover (aka Mabuchi wrap) or the hemi style.

Both are wound as you’d expect – wires going round the stack X number of times = turns… the difference is at the ending.

Crossover means the tail crosses over the start of the wire, where it solders to the comm. (think of it like you hanging off a treebranch, both hands holding on to the same spot above your head)

Hemi don’t “cross” as the tail connects instead to the adjacent comm segment… (like hanging off monkey bars in a ‘Y’, your arms holding on to different bars either side)

Some say hemi is really (X-1) & a half turns, as technically the last loop isn’t completed.

A custom wound motor can be built up in many different ways, depending on what your desired end result is. A human hand-winder can place the most-appropriate amount of wire at the right places, and hopefully use the same amt of wire at each of the 3 segments – thus reducing the need for heavy balancing afterwards.

Stock motors are mandated by ROAR rules to be wound only with the crossover style; Mabuchi & Johnson make the sealed-can 540 motors.

Modified motors would usually be wound hemi, even the machine-wound ones.

As for “latest technology”, both winding styles have been around since slot car days.

Not exactly what I’d call too new. 😀

[ph2t]

Excellent man, as usual your knowledge kicks ass!

The armature pictured below is a plasma dash. Not modified at all, ripped straight out of the can.

Now the commutator pin closest to the foreground is the one that has two wires connected to it, where the loom starts and stops for the whole armature..

I know it’s not the easiest to see but the loom starts on the right adjacent commutator pin and then is wrapped clockwise for 27 turns. When finished the wire comes up to the left adjacent comutator pin and then goes onto the next winding. So I take it this is the “hemi” style of winding.

Is there any advantage to this method? Until I saw the guts of a plasma dash I was winding all my motors in the crosover style. This was because all the motors I had (mabuchi 130 stock, tamyia no-names, etc, etc…) were based on the crossover method.

Unfortunately I have no idead how I could balance any motors I made in any precise method.

Thanks again man.

ph2t.

[micro_Amps]

Ph2t, a simple balance method is this, its a bit rough but it works.
Put the armature you have rewound on to 2 rails so it can roll back and forth on the shaft.
The heavy spot will go straight to the bottom.
File a bit off the segment (or drill a small hole) so that the segment that fell to the bottom now has a tiny amount removed.
Repeat until the armature has no definite place to stop, you will find that now the armature is very close to balanced.
:)uA

[ph2t]

wow man! that’s great! never thought of that!

You’re such a resourceful bugger! lol….

ph2t.

[merc-blue]

yeh ueseually they arent to bad though aslong as you keep tention the same while winding and put the wire in the same spot on each pole for that turn if u get my drift.. also not 2 much solder on the com pin

[oldtamiyaphile]

For any meaningful balance, I think you’ll need a ball raced prop balancer. These motors are tiny and any imbalance is likely to be equally tiny.

[betty.k]

Quote:

These motors are tiny and any imbalance is likely to be equally tiny.

what’s this?!! otp saying near enough is good enough?!!!!!!!!! glad we got that on record!:D:8ball:

[PandaBear]

There are several different ways of balancing your armature,
all of the above suggestions involve “static” balancing.

Best way of static balance is to set up 2 razor blades
with the knife edges up and let the arm sit balanced on them.
Heavy pole falls to the bottom.

However your armature may also have lateral imbalance, which can
only be diagnosed on a “dynamic” balancer which spins the arm
and works out exactly where to lighten or add weight.
Better balancers will also tell you how far along the arm
to add/remove weight.

Same exists with car tyres I guess. The cheapo shops only do a
static balance; the better shops have the spinning machine thingy
which can tell you whether to put the weight on the inside or
outside of the rim too.

For minor imbalance, drilling the stack should be enough – but
big craters can cause magnetic field to change.

You can also add weight on via “epoxy”; RC motors usually have
blobs of green putty on them if they’re not drill-balanced.
Its dried rock hard like ceramic, but they can fall off if
whacked hard enough.

Quote:

Excellent man, as usual your knowledge kicks ass!

You just have an impeccable good sense of timing, my friend.

Just so happened my latest project has been catching up on motor
tuning and optimising for our hobby 3-pole DC motors… been doing
quite a bit of time & $$ investment on the subject lately. 😀

[leonli17]

Anyone know what technology was used in Team Orion Micro Elite Modified Motor? I heard good things about them, they are fast yet effecient.

[Charlie Brown]

http://www.chaserrc.com/product.php?op=list&pcatid=2

Look at the last item, the “m’z hand wound high performance motor”. Right there could be an affordable example of a “patternwound” motor, possibly better than NML’s motors….

[ph2t]

Stuff buying it when they post pics of the armature.

The pattern is clearly evident here:

Mind you the commutator is nothing to cry home about. Yet to see anything that matches the plasma dash for a “beefy rear end!”

ph2t.

[jamiekulhanek]

shitty weed of a comm, they just can’t do the job.

If i see one more place selling cheap armatures im gonna puke

[Author]

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