Track timers

[t00l]

Is there any cheep ones in aus that hold records for upto 6 cars?
would be nice if it can connect to a computer
and $150 or under 🙂

[jamiekulhanek]

Nah to monitor 6 cars its quite expensive. Contact aaron for 6 car timers.

I have seen bit char-g timers, that monitor one car’s time. It has an lcd screen and beeps when you make a faster lap time.

[t00l]

thanks

[Aaron]

Hi T00l – got your e-0mail but thought best to answer this here….

DingoTimer software can be used to time up to 6 cars, but needs to be triggered by a keystroke for ach car. I’ve been working witht eh DingoTimer team to lok at sensing the Mini-Z and Bit char-g size cars and we’ve found the best way of doing it was/is RFID based tags.

Unfortunately the completed timing system would cost about AU$1000 in hardware to develop at the very very least – we don’t have that kind of cash and while we feel we could create a world beating product in price and performance we still would need to charge $1-2K per system to break even and eventually recover the development cost.

RFID gear is very very pricey… But very effective.

We’re sort of stalled until we can come up with a similar but much lower cost alternative.

The key tap timing methd can be surprising accurate if you have a time keeper for each car.

http://www.ringodingo.com are the people to contact about DingoTimer and it’s licensing…

--
Site Owner Guy.

[t00l]

🙁

[DaveF]

What about bar codes on the roof of each car, and a bar code scanner above the start/finish line??

Or is that RFID? What is RFID anyway?

[Aaron]

RFID is a wireless transponder technology that’s used for heap of different things – including loss-prevention in the retail industry.

The transponders are passive (no batteries) and uniquely coded and quite small while the receiver technology is able to be linked directly to a serial port… http://www.rfid.org is a good link I think…

Barcodes can’t cover multiple cars simultaneously… Also there’s a read speed issue…

A.

--
Site Owner Guy.

[t00l]

so is there a cheap track timer?

[DaveF]

Yeah. The speed the barcode would flash past occurred to me last night at home. Oh well, it was worth a try.

The transponder would be cheap, it’s the receiver that’d be the main cost. I wonder who makes the cheapest receover. After all It’s only need to pick up about 5 – 20 different transponders, and they could all be set to be quite different, so the receiver wouldn’t need to be super accurate.

[trash]

give me a bit more time kiddies. I’ve written some software for it that runs on a pic chip.
They cost about $10 each and they are small enough to fit into a BCG. It in theory can identify 256 cars, but I simplified it down to 10. As you all know, I’m still on holidays.
about 7 days to go. hassle me in october and I’ll publish the source code etc here.
I’d like to make a few up and test them first.
Let ya’ll know then.

[Aaron]

Sounds promising trash.

Where timer development is at right now:

Ringodingo.com has got their DingoTimer slot car timing system out there – it’s a great package and ausmicro.com has been working with them to develop the package to allow it to be expanded into other racing systems.

The big cost hurdle is the detection of the car – and detecting multiple cars effectively. We want a cheap system that can work for Bit char-g size right through to 1/10th scale cars.

We just need to feed the software an input from the serial port identifying a car and voila we’re there.

--
Site Owner Guy.

[t00l]

how much are these going to cost in total?

[trash]

I have worked out how to handle multiple cars. It’s actually quite easy.
The first is that each IR beacon transmits a flag and then it’s ID. so everything else is just noise. The pic can handle multiple sensors, but
I have just programed it for 1 so far just to keep it simple. Even with multiple cars in the field of view of the sensor, it will be rare that
two cars will jam each other. The trick is to remove a car from the detection subroutine for two seconds after it has been detected. So it will ignore that car. The beacon times are also so fast that there are large gaps of miliseconds between bursts leaving enough time for about 10 cars all to go through the timer at once.
And I still have plenty of tricks up my sleve for sifting out IR noise.

[t00l]

how much are these going to cost trash?

[trash]

ah, finnaly found this thread again…

ok, you can find 16F84 pic chips in the jaycar catalog. They’re the chips this code is written for. It may just look like jibberish to most of you, but some people will see what is going on.
The timing will need some tweaking since I haven’t built and tested it yet. It’s LED switching times that will determine how fast it
can run. The delay time give other cars a chance to beacon too as two cars go through the sensor.

Basically, this source code is compiled and then loaded onto a pic chip. the pic chip is then put into a small circuit, in this case it will just has a LED and a few extra surface mount compontents.

I’m not sure what my work schedule is for then next 3 months, chances are I may have more work overseas, and thus not much time to tinker.
I may on the other hand be working in sydney for that time in which case it’ll be finished before xmas.

[trash]

;IR tag for RC cars written by trash
;
; 1010XXXXXXX__ Preable followed by number
;
;

#DEFINE PAGE0 bcf STATUS,5
#DEFINE PAGE1 bsf STATUS,5

; Main Registers

TMR0: .EQU $01 ;timer register
OPTION: .EQU $01 ;option
STATUS: .EQU $03 ;status
PORTA: .EQU $05 ;porta
TRISA: .EQU $05 ;trisate direction
PORTB: .EQU $06 ;portb
TRISB: .EQU $06 ;trisate direction

COUNT: .EQU $0C ;counter
ID: .EQU $0D ;ID working register

; Register Flags
W: .EQU 0 ;working register

; Program Section Begins here.
.ORG $0005

INIT: clrf PORTA ;program starts here
clrf PORTB ;clear ports
PAGE1
clrf TRISA ;direction register outputs
movlw FFh ;All inputs
movwf TRISB ;direction register
movlw 87h ;10000111 may not need this ?
movwf OPTION ;write to register
PAGE0

MAIN: clrf PORTA ;clear port and start preamble
incf PORTA ;turn LED ON
call WAIT ;wait
incf PORTA ;turn LED OFF
call WAIT ;wait
incf PORTA ;turn LED ON
call WAIT ;wait
incf PORTA ;turn LED OFF
call WAIT ;wait

ID: movlw 08h ;bit counter
movwf COUNTER ;set counter
movfw PORTB ;load ID from portb
movwf ID ;ID register
NEXT: rlf ID ;rotate in carry
skpc ;skip on carry
bcf PORTA,0 ;LED OFF
skpnc ;skip no carry
bsf PORTA,0 ;LED ON
call WAIT ;wait
decf COUNTER ;how many bits left
skpz ;skip on zero
goto NEXT ;still some left
bcf PORTA,0 ;LED OFF
call WAIT ;wait
call WAIT ;wait
goto ID ;broadcast ID again

WAIT: movfw TMR0 ;load timer into W
skpz ;wait for zero
goto wait
return ;return

.END

[trash]

I just looked at the rxer source code that I have written for the 16F84. It’s not finshed yet, but the project could just as easily be written for a PC using the printer port, either in asembler or even basic. IF somebody is interested, I’ll post the rxer code as it is now, there are still some lines of code to be written yet. The rx program is designed only to handle 8 cars and I was going to add an LCD display routine to it so that there is no need for a PC.

[jamiekulhanek]

Im not really into this Pic stuff but i can read and sorta understand, great work man.

[trash]

If you need help laoding it etc, just let me know. You can get everything you need from jaycar.
Programers, chips, circuit boards, components etc.

[Efarel]

Hi,
great idea !! it can be a very good diy transponder.
how do you power the ir transponder ?
have you a circuit schematic ?
what about false hits due to a car passing in a straight near to the IR sensor ?
what about transponder’s placement in the mini-z ?

thank you for you tip and idea, hope that other “propeller’s head” can help to expand this idea !

greetings
Efarel

[trash]

just power it either from the on board power or a seperate battery.
Yep, I have a schematic … will draw it up in jpg and put it up here when I get the chance.
I haven’t addressed the problem of IR reflections, but by putting the sensor on an angle or with a small tube/filter you should be able to stop false tripping.
You can put them anywhere on the miniZ, but generally pointing up. Though a window etc.

The is no reason why you couldn’t put them under the car, and put the sensor in the track.
A bit more tricky.. would have to think some more about it.

[Efarel]

the tube will be a good tip, maybe a cardboard is the best resort.
My IR experiment gives good results with cardboard shield.
I used it for lasertag gun and it works great.

I hope you can post soon your schematics !!

Keep on the good work

Efarel

[Admin]

I want to build a track timer with RFID. I built the IR system from http://www.geekfreaks.com for $250 however the Florida Sun makes it dificult becaus of IR reflections of the car roofs. I also want to use the software provided for FREE from rctiming.com (feelaps). This software interfaces seemlessly with AMBrc so the it will accept serial input with AMB protocols (I also need these). RFIDs provide a simple and cheap way to get started. Racers could get the tags from products purchased at some stores. And the readers are becomming cheap. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Mario Martinez
email
hack41LT at yahoo dot com

RFID information
“Invented in 1969 and patented in 1973, but only now becoming commercially and technologically viable, RFID tags are essentially microchips, the tinier the better. Some are only 1/3 of a millimeter across. These chips act as transponders (transmitters/responders), always listening for a radio signal sent by transceivers, or RFID readers. When a transponder receives a certain radio query, it responds by transmitting its unique ID code, perhaps a 128-bit number, back to the transceiver. Most RFID tags don’t have batteries (How could they? They’re 1/3 of a millimeter!). Instead, they are powered by the radio signal that wakes them up and requests an answer.

Most of these “broadcasts” are designed to be read between a few inches and several feet away, depending on the size of the antenna and the power driving the RFID tags (some are in fact powered by batteries, but due to the increased size and cost, they are not as common as the passive, non-battery-powered models). However, it is possible to increase that distance if you build a more sensitive RFID receiver.

RFID chips cost up to 50 cents, but prices are dropping. Once they get to 5 cents each, it will be cost-efficient to put RFID tags in almost anything that costs more than a dollar.

Toppan to Produce $20 RFID Reader
The Japanese printing company says it will have an ultra-low-cost EPC reader on the market by June.

Jan. 23, 2003 – Toppan Printing Co., the $10 billion Japanese printing, electronics and industrial products manufacturer is working with two other Japanese firms to mass produce readers that will cost less than $20, as well as RFID tags and labels that will cost about 50 cents each.

[trash]

Yes, that’s a good idea. I was working on the code for this just the other night. Trying to re-learn CDMA techniques so that the reader can handle multiple cars going though the gate at the same time, and out of phase with each other.
Tricky stuff.

[trash]

Yes, that’s a good idea. I was working on the code for this just the other night. Trying to re-learn CDMA techniques so that the reader can handle multiple cars going though the gate at the same time, and out of phase with each other.
Tricky stuff. it’s not a high priority project, I just plod along on it every now and then.

[Admin]

Hi ppl,

I am new to this forum and found out here: http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10857&st=15 that you are talking about track timing systems. The last few days I was thinking about one too, and your PIC solution sounds pretty cool to me trash, I was thinking in the same way actually, until I found an IC.
That is the HT12A from Holtec. http://www.holtek.com.tw/english/products/remote_1.htm With that IC you can put an 8-bit adress and a 4-bit dataline, it will make a serial code of it and modulate it on 38kHz (that’s the A version, not the E). That output signal you can easily connect to an IR-LED. With an TSOP1738 IR Reciever, it will demodulate your IR signal to a serial output. This you can connect to a HT12D (detector) and when you put the right adress on the HT12D (the same adress as on the sender), the HT12D will see the data that you have put on the sender, which can be a Car_ID. If you connect that data signal to a parallel port of a computer and with the right software (SlotMan f.e.) you will have a timing system.
Of course you will have to add a 555 timer to the Tx (sender), to make some ‘room’ for other TX’s (with multiple cars), but it will never be bulletproof, you just redruce the chance your Tx’s to transmit togheter.
The thing I don’t like about this system is the overkill, I mean you will transmit like 12bits + some control bits for just max 10 cars, so 4 bits with some control bits would be more than enough, so finding a different modulator/decoder would be nice.

Greetz,
HaCo

PS.: I never tested the system, just thought about it.

[ken_wyleung]

This is the system that I am using on my track for our club members for more than 2 years.
http://www.squat.co.jp/rcbearing-squat/mini-z/wizard-forigner.htm
It can be handle upto 15 Mini-Z or 1:18 at the sametime and it is contects to the computer by USB cable, very easy to use.:)

Edited by – ken_wyleung on 20 January 2005 19:23:08

[leonli17]

wow, talking about reviving an old 1 and half year topic.
Hey Ken, u think u can bring the track timer next time we have a meet?

[arch2b]

f.y.i.

corespeedway has already developed a timing system using this type of hardware.
http://www.corespeedway.com/

i’m beta testing it right now and i’m very happy with it. it should be released at a fraction of the cost of the amb-it/ko propo systems.

right now a couple lhs’s are also beta testing it so it should be event friendly as well. i’ve been doing the home track testing so to speak

[Author]

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