why are Oz RC shops more expensive than overseas?

[PandaBear]

Thread renamed…! :D:D

Edited by – PandaBear on 18 February 2004 12:34:17

[oldtamiyaphile]

Wholesale cost? You’ve listed roughly retail prices. I can get TL-01’s for around $170 in Oz. If we’re talking half retail (which is wholesale), then I’m interested in the Celica.

[PandaBear]

OTP:- no offence, but since when do LHS put 100% markups on kits?? That would be an act of suicide, even for the greediest shopkeep.

Believe me, I get to see official importer’s wholesale lists – some of them numbers are pretty scary. :dead:

As for ‘cheap’ TL01s… yes in recent past have seen some ‘special’ joblot/s from distributor to a select few retailers. These are oneoff specials only on CERTAIN SPECIFIC less-popular TL01 kits – none of which are the ones listed above. The unloved ones see some shops usually listing them for $169 – far below ‘listed wholesale’.

Do not be deluded into thinking its a blanket case for all TL01s. blackeye:

[oldtamiyaphile]

Bear with me here.

Mini-Z Overland, I bought mine for US$90 ~AUD$115. LHS price? $305 and that’s on sale from $350! (still want $350 for the F-1’s)

Now, at $115 the Asian sellers are still making a profit. Shipping cost me ~$20, so it might cost the distributors $10 per unit at the most.

So between the distibutors and hobbyshop, theres a 300% mark up. I’m inclined to believe that the distributors make $50 or less (high volume) and the LHS $150.

The FF Celica costs $65(AUD82) in Japan. After airmail postage that’s about $120, or as little as $100 surface. I find it odd that I can get stuff retail in another country, pay postage and get it for less than wholesale. Just doesn’t make sence. Altezza is even cheaper US$58. Not saying your wrong, but I do find it odd. Heck, maybe I should go into business, TL/FF’s for 140 bucks.

100% is normal retail mark up. That might be an extreme example, and probably doesn’t reflect Tamiya kits, but I’m sure it goes for the option parts ($180 for an alu chassis)! Funny thing about Tamiya options is the Yen price is printed on the pack, so you can see exactly how much you’re getting ripped by!

LHS prices:

http://www.stanbridges.com.au/elebug.asp

TT-01’s starting at $176, quite a few under $200, Moderna for $185, like you said, check the LHS. A few of those are pretty good value, the ’04 at least.

Edited by – oldtamiyaphile on 09 February 2004 03:23:29

[Aaron]

OTP – I think you’re missing Pandabears point, that is – the markup happens at ToyTraders (the Tamiya Importer) NOT at LHS level in Australia.

I suspect the same goes for the Mini-Z.

A.

--
Site Owner Guy.

[PandaBear]

Yeeep… :sad:… as Aaron says – the markup is by the distributor, NOT by the LHS.

Through my various industry contacts, I get the priviledge of seeing the wholesale lists from Toy Traders (Tamiya) and Dawn Trading (Kyosho, AE). Like I said earlier, “some of them numbers are pretty scary. :dead:”

(These lists are commercial-in-confidence so please don’t even ask.)

That said, I’m having grave difficulty working out how Oz LHSes manage to even make a buck. Very very hard, especially with our small population/market.

There are many pros & cons about going the ‘legit’ route vs GREY-IMPORTING, but I’ll say this is not the thread to discuss that. (If you wish to, please start a new thread, perhaps under ‘General’.)

No barriers to entry into this industry either… absolutely nothing stopping anyone buying retail from o/s and setting up shop selling them locally. I wouldn’t mind going to a shop like that in Oz & always wondering why nobody does – could there be some unknown reason??! Why don’t you start one up and let us all know? :approve:

Give all Ausmicro boarders a good deal will ya… how about 40% discount?? 🙂 (With your 100% markup, you’ll still be making a 20% gross profit even after that discount! Right?! :smiley2:)

*****************************

Ok, back to the topic. Need to add:-

Should it matter to anyone, I have since checked all above kits and they are all complete – nothing missing. All kit boxes are in pristine condition, no shelf wear, transport damage etc. I know this might be important to some collectors out there.

No guarantees if you need OzPost to get them to you though. blackeye:

[PandaBear]

Quote:

OTP:-
…LHS prices:

http://www.stanbridges.com.au/elebug.asp

TT-01’s starting at $176, quite a few under $200, Moderna for $185, like you said, check the LHS. A few of those are pretty good value, the ’04 at least.

Umm… where’s those $$ from, OTP?

Went to your link, these are just what I found.

(from http://www.stanbridges.com.au/elebug.asp)

T58266 TAMIYA FERRARI 360 MODENA CHALLENGE TA04 $520.00
T58289X TAMIYA FERRARI MODENA TL01 $185.00
–> clearance Modena is a TA04, *not* TL01. Big difference! :angry:

T58273 TAMIYA 4WD RALLY CAR SUBARU IMPREZA WRC 2001 $235.00

T58273X TAMIYA SUBARU WRC 2001 TL-01 $219.00

T58248 TAMIYA TOYOTA CELICA FF02 $240.00

–> couldn’t find NSX 2000 which is a TB01, just got its cousins:
T58298 TAMIYA ENZO FERRARI TB01 $360.00
T58281 TAMIYA FORD FOCUS WRC 2001 TB-01 $360.00

So umm… uhuh?

–> I’d be willing to bet Stanbridges buys its stock from Toy Traders? 😀

[oldtamiyaphile]

OK, thanks for the info. Now that I recall talking to some shop owners, you seem to be right.

OK, in most cases, they don’t have the exact same kits, I just went on prices by chassis type

For TL/TT-01’s;

FERRARI MODENA TL01 $185.00
RAYBRIG NSX 03 TT01 $176.00
RAYBRIG NSX 03 TT01 $176.00

My point was it’s not too hard to find a TL/TT under $200. I got a couple FF-01’s a couple years back there as low as $140, those were the days…

I’ll be quite now :smiley2: Until I start my grey market business HEHE.

[PandaBear]

Quote:

OK, in most cases, they don’t have the exact same kits, I just went on prices by chassis type

Hmm… that’s a bit like saying a Holden Statesman
should be the same price as a Holden Commodore eh?

After all, its the same engine, same drivetrain, same colours… :smiley2:

Quote:

FERRARI MODENA TL01 $185.00
RAYBRIG NSX 03 TT01 $176.00
RAYBRIG NSX 03 TT01 $176.00

I have grave suspicion they may not “have” stock of
TT01 at that price… hmm, when I’m next bored
looking for something to do I might just call them
up and see how many they’ll sell me @ that price…
‘cos I think there’s been a pricing booboo.

Going by the relativities in ‘The List’, the TT01
should be a little bit *dearer* than the TL01s.

No, there are no TT01s in the clearance list.

[PandaBear]

Quote:

OK, thanks for the info. Now that I recall talking to some shop owners, you seem to be right.

btw, not trying to advertise or anything but I’m a business analyst with a personal interest in the hobby trade. 😀 Industry involvement dates back to 1982; started racing Tamiya in 1977.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Nah, you can’t easily upgrade a Commodore to a Statesman (wheelbase for a start!), but in R/C it’s just a body. Since you’ll smash up the race body, the body that comes with the kit is not critical IMO. I get the cheap kit and then buy the body I want separately, of course, I’m sure most people don’t think the same way. But the point is, there’s no rational reason for one body to cost more than another (unlike in your example), people want Subies, so they charge more for them.

Interestingly, while kit prices are all over the place, all the replacement bodies cost the same. More interesting is if you buy the Modena, add a Subi body, you’ve only spent $30 more than the Subi kit. Who’d pass up a Tamiya body at the LHS for $30?

They do have stock, list is updated daily, though chances are they only have one of each kit listed.

Edited by – oldtamiyaphile on 09 February 2004 18:49:51

[Aaron]

You’d be surprised att eh costs of importing from overseas and running a business that way. LHS’s here let ToyTraders take the risks 😉

A.

--
Site Owner Guy.

[PandaBear]

Yep – no risk, no return.

Along the way I have gotten to know some other national distributors overseas too, so have half a rough idea of what deals Shizouka charges ex-factory. Not that I begrudge Ronny O’D’s operations but definitely TT’s markup is still pretty usurious by wholesale standards.

---

One always wonder if Australia can really buy more Tamiyas if the local retail prices drop, and shops/TT make up that lost margin by selling more volume.

For various reasons & I’ve got some sums… methinks “no”.

But we can always live in hope. 🙂

[oldtamiyaphile]

Well, this topic just keeps going.

Aaron, no real risk, I’d only order what I like, keep what I can’t sell 😀 I actually used to do something like that, not with R/C though.

Panda, I hardly buy anything from the LHS(s) anymore, because I just can’t justify their prices. Mostly, I buy large plastic kits, general supplies, mags, planes and Oz frequency radios (not much choice there) from the LHS. Most other things I can get 1/2 price or close to it, in a few cases, I can get stuff for 1/4 of the Oz price. I’d be more than happy to support local business more, but why should it come at my expense? But, that’s all another thread…

[PandaBear]

Quote:

…But, that’s all another thread.

Done deed! :smiley16:

[trash]

Hmmm.
Having traveled a bit and having very good manufacturing contacts, you’d be horrified if you knew what your latest investment cost to make and who got their cut and how much that was.

An example is a standard Mini-Z…..
After the initial setup costs of moulds etc
Your Z leaves the factory in China for about $20 with 1000 other Z’s.
They turn up in HK where they get destributed and exported for about $30 each in batches of 300.
They end up in a container… if the importer is smart, he owns the container and has it full to the brim with other products and if he’s even more clever, he has something to put in the container on its return journey.
By time the container lands here and has the duties and taxes etc paid, they’re about $50 each on the dock.
They then get split up again by the importer to the wholesalers (who are often the importer)
where they double in price. Wholesalers have small overheads.. they just store stuff, there is no shop. So they are now in batches of 20 or 50
at the wholesaler at a price tag of about $100 each.
The Retailer orders them in and the markup is usually about 200% (or more).
Their overheads include giving a warranty, dealing with consumer issues, shop rent, insurance in case some kid knocks out his brother with a nerf ball. etc. Electricity and finally wages.. with a bit left over for profit.

Some of the smaller shops import directly from Asia and of course, their retail price reflects that.

There is room for the little guy in there to undercut the big guys if you’re prepared to invest some money and work hard to sell your stock.
When the big LHS does this… prices don’t get cheaper, they just get bigger profits.
Example … The RC planes that DSE sell (outlaw)
leave the factory in China at $7usd each in batches of 3000.
Big shop, Big profit, and Big overheads.

Welcome to economics 101 🙂

[Aaron]

*nods* I would say though that for the most part these days the retailers wear the smallest cash risk, the wholesalers/importers carry the can for warranty, promotion and distribution.

The problem with the Woolies (DSE/Woolies/cheapassh!t shops) model is that they bring in a container load of items and try sellign them as a ‘premium’ niche product, then when that dies down they drop the price slightly and retail it at it’s new price point and byt he time their 72 foot long shipping container is sold they’ve destroyed the market for simialr items.

Youd be surprised at home many people loose interest in Micro R/C just becuase of a poor quality clone car.

Then again you’d be surprised att he risks the same big companies will make. Many clones I’ve seen in Australia almost certainly would be illegal, in breach of various laws/rules about radio controlled equipment… small companies can’t runt he risk of doing in against the rules. The large ones can cop the fine and the loss, small guys can’t afford the testing fees (an example not RC, it costs about $20000 to get an already in manufacture, fully compliant to stricter codes than ours telecommunications device approved for legal sale… And that doesn’t even transmit radio waves by design!) up front hence we miss out or have to put up witht he cheapest possible stuff coming at the worst possible price..

A.

--
Site Owner Guy.

[betty.k]

i’ve had little experience buying rc stuff, but i’ve noticed we do tend to get a raw deal in aus. f’rinstance, ccg compared to bcg are a little crappier, a lotta play in the steering assembly, pcb cover glued on, limited range of cars, and no retail accessory sales (motors, gears, etc).
when i first discovered the micro’s i went shopping for motors and the like and only found 1 shop that stocked them. they had 2 2.6 tomy’s and 1 gearset, all $25 each!:dead: (of course i bought a motor!:D) the guy in the shop gave me the impression that they wouldn’t be stocking any more bcg related items, except maybe cars, obviously not worth it for them:8ball:

Edited by – betty.k on 19 February 2004 00:24:54

[PandaBear]

Don’t forget too – Importing as a wholesaler isn’t as easy & cheap as we make it sound.

Each step there are hidden costs… eg:
-banks charge fees & commission for anything they do, be it making a simple foreign currency transaction to issuing Letters of Documentary Credit & FCY loans
-wharfies… did you know Aussie dock workers averagen $100k each??!?
-customs… they’ve got about 500 pages just on categorising a plastic toy into what tax rates I’m told.
-authorities… play things need to pass certain approvals. If they change their mind later, they have the right to confiscate your entire shipment.
-transport… Oz is a huge place, we are still highly reliant on truckies. When you pay these guys $1+ a kilometer to move a bigrig… not cheap!
-how many can you sell to a population of 20 million? Economies of scale are limited
-clone products appear increasingly quickly.

Thank you everybody, here endth Economics 102. 🙂

[z-beam]

in oz we dont make anything like r/c toys so our suppliers get a supply and then try and create demand.

i have found personaly that it is way better to look around (web) and supply your own demand…

small scale importation at the moment (usd:aud exchange rate) is really viable. and when it comes to new things like the micro r/c boats,subs, perfection supercars and even the new tomy supercar pullbacks you could have a feild day with parents wallets at markets.

the key is do some product research and if the price is low and quality is decent then get a dozen in and take em to the local markets. especially if the items are exotic to the australian market they’ll have the consumers wide eyed and ready to buy…

[betty.k]

noted.:smiley2: i’m fully aware that the high price is a result of people charging what they have to for all those reasons you mentioned panda, it’s a shame it has to be that way as aaron stated, cost was the main reason i hadn’t ventured into the rc world. even i knew that the top of the line rc’s from dse or tandy are pretty crappy and likely to fail drastically therefore dissapointing the buyer. but i wouldn’t be into the hobby if it wasn’t for $15 clones being sold at the melb show.
like trash was saying, most rc toys are better bought on the net, but you can’t beat walking into a hobby shop and talking to the staff, as opposed to dse, etc where the staff don’t know what they’re selling. i buy all my little supplies at the lhs even if it’s a bit pricey, it’s a bargain when you factor in a face to face conversation with someone knowledgable in the area.:8ball:

[oldtamiyaphile]

Quote:

-wharfies… did you know Aussie dock workers averagen $100k each??!?

Yes I do, what I would like to know is how do I land such a job?

Quote:

-transport… Oz is a huge place, we are still highly reliant on truckies. When you pay these guys $1+ a kilometer to move a bigrig… not cheap!

Even if it’s Sydney to Perth that’s $3000, or about $1 per unit. It all adds up of course.

BTW, Bits cost US$80 in Switzerland.

[PandaBear]

Quote:

Quote:

-wharfies… did you know Aussie dock workers averagen $100k each??!?

Yes I do, what I would like to know is how do I land such a job?

Me too, me too! :p

Think it has something to do with family ties… all the young guys
usually have a father or uncle also working in the same job. Damned! :dead:

Quote:

Even if it’s Sydney to Perth that’s $3000, or about $1 per unit. It all adds up of course.

Don’t forget backloading too… the rig’s gotta come back also,
sometimes empty if there’s no goods to carry the other way.
So you might have to pay for BOTH ways just to get your goods over.

Quote:

BTW, Bits cost US$80 in Switzerland.

Aren’t they the ones with a 60%+ personal tax rate??! 😯

[trash]

The ACA doesn’t police much to do with radio these day Aaron, they sit on their arses until the problem goes away or somebody paying big licence fees kicks theirs.
The last raid I heard them doing was on UHF TV senders. Most of them tuned to about Ch30-35.
They hit parklea markets and confiscated a few, but they were back the following week.
They didn’t even bother with radio equipment that ran on 433Mhz, like walkie talkies when we already had UHF CB for that. Thankfully, the problem solved itself too… the UHF CB versions out sell the 433’s.
The BCG cars don’t follow the radcom regs in this country and in theory if they wanted to kick up a fuss they could do so easily. Lucky the problem solves itself in this case too. They are very low power and don’t radiate much past the walls of a room. DSE and the like do put a little bit of thought into some of their material.
All their planes have been 27MHz. It would have been rather ugly if they had been 49MHz and had to be sent back.

I’m not sure what the go is with the warfies,
they cry poor but somewhere in there I smell a scam. I could think of ways to bring them down to size, but the problem then becomes… if they can do it to them, they can do it to you.
In any case it seems that grasping the nettle is not something our leaders prefer to do. Either that or our nettles have bloody big spines !

[PandaBear]

Quote:

…the top of the line rc’s from dse or tandy are pretty crappy and likely to fail drastically

I found some DSEs selling Tamiyas… :p the real thing too,
not RTR types. Ahh, mere abberations in the time-space continuum. 😀

[micro_Amps]

I noticed the Tamiya 4WD racer cars (non RC) at DSE too.
:)uA

[PandaBear]

Damned cheap (<$10) too.

You don’t want to know what the trade price is on those… 🙁

[jamiekulhanek]

Quote:

noted.:smiley2: i’m fully aware that the high price is a result of people charging what they have to for all those reasons you mentioned panda, it’s a shame it has to be that way as aaron stated, cost was the main reason i hadn’t ventured into the rc world. even i knew that the top of the line rc’s from dse or tandy are pretty crappy and likely to fail drastically therefore dissapointing the buyer. but i wouldn’t be into the hobby if it wasn’t for $15 clones being sold at the melb show.
like trash was saying, most rc toys are better bought on the net, but you can’t beat walking into a hobby shop and talking to the staff, as opposed to dse, etc where the staff don’t know what they’re selling. i buy all my little supplies at the lhs even if it’s a bit pricey, it’s a bargain when you factor in a face to face conversation with someone knowledgable in the area.:8ball:

Try buying various components from there! Nightmare, especially when you get a female cashier (that was not meant to be sexist, just a fact). I usually go to jaycar. I used know a bloke that works there who gives me insane deals, if something is under 5 bucks he cbf scanning it so he just gives it to me. Once i made a digital tacho with 20 high intencity LEDs, 2 LM3914’s, a TLC555 and a few more bits. Total value was around $65 but i only paid $5!!!!!

[Author]

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