motor rewinding

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    • #11573
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      ok today i rewound a tamiya-clone motor (that i found in the rubbish heap i call a room) from 70T to 50T….i havent track tested it yet but when it was still 70T it was as fast as my stock z motor…has anyone else rewound a motor? and what specs work for you?

    • #44130
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      i actually found out it is a genuine tamiya motor, and i rewound another one to 41T! it screams….the qualitys ok but the brushes suck. where can i buy new brushes?

    • #44140
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      try sherrifs mini cars in parramatta on church street

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      Edited by – Shypo on 13 January 2003 16:22:02

    • #44144
      Aaron
      Keymaster
      • Posts: 2146

      http://www.rcmart.com also have brushes, but they’d be pricey to land by themselves.

      Be very interested to hear about the moter rewinding? How about submitting a quick article up to ausmicro.com?

      —-
      Moderator, Admin, and all that 🙂

      --
      Site Owner Guy.

    • #44146
      Admin
      Participant
      • Posts: 5952

      PN racing’s S01 motor has 37 turns..with a turbo and a 9T gear, it’s running a little over 20 mph.

      http://www.tokyotekki.com

    • #44149
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      yeh i wanna know abour rewinding motors too, how do you do it? And how does it improve ur car?

    • #44156
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Usually when the Mini4WD kiddies rewind their motors they do it with less winds using thicker wires, not just snip off a few winds.

      I don’t think “Tamiya” standard motors included in kits are anything different to the $2 “130” motors you can buy at DSE. Tamiya just buys them from China etc like anybody else, they’re not badged. Tamiya’s branded option hopup motors are different matter altogether.

      Less winds with thicker wire will pass more current through the magnetic field, thus more power. It will also increase current – make sure your stock ESC isn’t overloaded.

    • #44158
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yeah i need to buy some SWG30 wire…ive read that the x-speed is just the stock motor with 50T instead of 70T and if my tamiya motor goes the same speed as the stock motor it should theoretically go as fast as an x-speed with less winds..but its not quite up to par…
      ill get some new wire and see how that goes…

      Edited by – GT-ahh on 13 January 2003 23:44:41

    • #44159
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Your local DSE might not stock lacquered copper wires in various guages… but alternatively you could try taking a peek inside old AC transformers. These all use copper windings, their size would indicate how thick their wire is likely to be.

      Just about any mains-operated device & powersupply would have a transformer inside, a technician’s backyard would be great to find junk whitegoods to pull trannies out of. 🙂

    • #44172
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      I have experimented with rewinding cheap DSE motors. They scream, but the bronze/copper brushes burn away from the arcing.

    • #44181
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Solder some small ceramic capacitors across the brushes… might reduce the arcing.

    • #44183
      me and me lude
      Participant
      • Posts: 42

      do you people water dip your motors?

      Epoch Indoor Racer: Legacy B4 (Spec-2)
      DigiQ-R: NSX-R

    • #44189
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yep i water dip mine, i shake it underwater to get all the air bubbles out….yeah i got some 30 BS guage from jaycar they have quite abit of variety. ($5.75 for a 25g roll) and i rewound my tamiya motor to 45T.. it has a fairly decent to speed on it too.
      A problem i had was that when i was using the motor the steering had a tendancey to get possesed. after i soldered 2 10nF caps across the can and terminals it has been reduced, but every few meters the car has abit of a shake where the steering flicks left then right quickly. it doesnt really affect the car that much but is pissing me off heaps..why is this caused? is it interference from the coil? or back emf from the motor?

    • #44210
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      Yep tried caps, but the brushes are still way too crap. Water dipping is USELESS unless the motor has proper carbon brushes.

      GT-ahh, the stock brushes arc alot and I reckon that is what is causing the interference.

    • #44218
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      it doesnt really affect the car that much but is pissing me off heaps..why is this caused? is it interference from the coil? or back emf from the motor?

      I have a feeling that the extra current draw is starving your radio gear and causing glitching.

      Try this:- get some caps and wire them across the battery. A nice big cap is good but a whole lot of smaller ones adding to the same uF is better (faster response time).

    • #44219
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      …i soldered 2 10nF caps across the can and …

      Already got 2, better with 3rd.

      2: from each terminal to ground/can.
      1: between the 2 terminals.

    • #44221
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      sweet ill try it…im using 650maH nimhs so i dont think its starving the batteries…ill hook up the 3rd cap pronto

    • #44226
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yeah i hooked up a third 10nF cap across the terminals and wow…no jitters. my z is now caffine free:)
      now that my motors running great and I can go in a straight line I’m amazed at how much faster my rewound motor goes than the stock…yeeasshhh. im not sure how much more abuse the shell can take…
      *screeeeechhhhh—-crash—tinkle….

    • #44260
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      Most people say “i’ll be a careful driver and not crash” no way of stopping this, its just a fact of life. The mini z bodies can take a fair bit of torture, but a hard hit on concrete may crack it. Kyosho make beautiful bodies, beautiful paint jobs and detail, but it wont be long before all that detail is transferred to gutters etc.

      The world is mine

    • #44261
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      lmao if u wanna put it that way then…
      “i’ll be a careful driver and not crash”

    • #44329
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      lol my porsche body is getting pretty dodge now 🙁 I am a really good driver tho 😉 jk

      The world is mine

    • #44334
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      try keeping a lighter model shell in one piece, lighten the chassis with holes…better acceleration:D:smiley2::p

    • #44348
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      very true charg-o-saurus, your car does go a bit better.
      get a white shell, you can barely notice anything

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    • #44351
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      get a white shell, you can barely notice anything

      Wonder if we can dye that white plastic…? :shy:

    • #44352
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      wow…no jitters. my z is now caffine free:)

      Jitters? talking of which:

      What happens when you guys turn your car On with the TX Off?

      Both of my mZs start jittering its steering all over the place & the motor runs pretty fast too.

      Not happy as I’m used to turning the TX off and then expecting the car to just sit there doing nothing. The ESC should just stay quiet when there’s no radio signals found.

    • #44364
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      yeh it does that to warn you that there is no signal being received, it freaked me out when i first turned mine on, i thought id stuffed it lol… so how do you rewing the motor ?? I want to do it !! GT-Ahh would you let us know please…

      27MHZ 3.5 Honda Accord (Custom Exhaust and F1 Wing)
      35MHZ 1.0 Battery Modded Castrol Supra
      45MHZ 2.2 Custom Painted Yellow and Black WRX
      57MHZ 2.6 Booster Trueno
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      Mini Z Castrol Supra + all mods (Coming)

    • #44369
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      it pretty much involves taking apart the motor and rewinding the armature with a thicker wire and less winds, all u need is enamel wire a soldering iron some fine sand paper and a screwdriver…

      start by taking the end bell off the can and pulling the armature out. then you have to desolder one of the points where the wire attaches to the commutator, (try to find the point where the end and start of the wire are attached, not the points where the wire just loops over) then start unwinding, count the number of turns the motor has..should be about 70. when the motors fully unwound, get some enamel wire, sand or melt off the enamel coating so u can solder it to the commutator, solder it on then start winding…wind it as per oposite to the way you unwound it..you should only need one very long piece of wire…

      I use 30 B&S guage wire which is availible from jaycar but some people use thicker guages depending on prefrence….
      43 turns is as low as you can go with standard FETs in the z, anything lower will fry your FETs…so only do about 45 or 50 turns
      Aparantly the x-speed motor is just the stock motor with 50T instead of 70T….
      start with cheap motors so u get a feel for it without destroying expensive kyosho products..

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44374
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      If you guys hang around with the Mini4WD crowd, you’ll find that they have companies selling empty motor cans and blank armatures. Just the job for winding your own!

      You don’t have to wind with just 1 wire either, you can pair 2 or more thinner wires up and then wind this ‘rope/braid’ around the arm.

      Make sure you put equal winds on each side, and that the sides are balanced.

      Unfortunately Mini4WD didn’t make it big here, you’ll usually have to visit Asia for goodies like that.

      Your ESC can be reinforced with a FET upgrade or one of those ‘turbo’ thingys, don’t know how those work though.

    • #44382
      me and me lude
      Participant
      • Posts: 42

      multiple fet’s are in parallel, thus less resistance and more current, this allows higher current drains without frying the pcb

      ________
      Epoch Indoor Racer: Legacy B4 (Spec-2)
      DigiQ-R: NSX-R

    • #44388
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      hmmm sounds a little hard for me, GT-Ahh interested in doing it for me for a service fee by any chance ?

      27MHZ 3.5 Honda Accord (Custom Exhaust and F1 Wing)
      35MHZ 1.0 Battery Modded Castrol Supra
      45MHZ 2.2 Custom Painted Yellow and Black WRX
      57MHZ 2.6 Booster Trueno
      Mini Z Blue WRX (Lights, Gold alloys, Exhaust)
      Mini Z Castrol Supra + all mods (Coming)

    • #44560
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      i think my caris white plastic Panda. becos all the scrapes and things it cops its just always white???:question:

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    • #44566
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yeah my black shell is white underneath, ive got a permanent texta on hand so its all good…

      I looked at my tamiya motor the other day and realised its the same brand as the kyosho ones..
      mabuchi i think…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

      Edited by – GT-ahh on 29 January 2003 23:09:37

    • #44628
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      i was thinking if mabuchi makes motors for tamiya and kyosho, i could buy one of those cheap tamiya track runner things just for the motor, and rewire it…
      so the question is..does tamiya still use “mabuchi” motors?
      so for the cost of a tamiya track runner (even cheaper if I could order motors directly from somewhere)plus the cost of wire and capacitors, plus a small labour fee I could be knocking out x-speed equivalent (or faster, for turbos) motors… now if only i had an x-speed to compare with…:smiley2:

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

      Edited by – GT-ahh on 29 January 2003 23:08:02

    • #44632
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      hehe.. iv got one 😛

      27MHZ 3.5 Honda Accord (Custom Exhaust and F1 Wing)
      35MHZ 1.0 Battery Modded Castrol Supra
      45MHZ 2.2 Custom Painted Yellow and Black WRX
      57MHZ 2.6 Booster Trueno
      Mini Z Blue WRX (Lights, Gold alloys, Exhaust)
      Mini Z Castrol Supra + all mods (Coming)

    • #44636
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      i think my caris white plastic Panda. becos all the scrapes and things it cops its just always white???:question:

      Ya, the MiniZ bodies are all ABS plastic – like your familiar 1/24 static model kits.

      The paintwork on these things are pretty darned FANTASTIC but!! I’d kill to be able to go visit the factory and see how they do it so well. The red paint on my Ferrari is so deep and shiny, it’ll be pretty hard to do the same quality by hand from a spraycan even. And all the markings are painted on, not stickers.

    • #44637
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      i was thinking if mabuchi makes motors for tamiya and kyosho, i could buy one of those cheap tamiya track runner things just for the motor, and rewire it…
      so the question is..does tamiya still use “mabuchi” motors?

      Tamiya has been using 130 motors since the year dot, this is a standard industrial size. Yes Tamiya do get Mabuchi motors, especially the Hopup ones sold separately.

      Mabuchi is one of the bigger makers, so is Johnston (symbol is a stylised “J”) but then again there’s 100s of chinese factories churning them out too – for 1001 toys, handheld fans, micro ‘pen’ vacumm cleaners etc etc.

      But if you just want raw material to play with :), just visit DSE – they sell 130s for about $2.

      If you wanna buy them in bulk I can refer you to wholesalers, but be prepared to talk 1000s… :blush:

    • #44640
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Checked out Tamiya’s latest crop of “static” WW2 model planes lately?

      They now got spinning propellors… using MicroB motors!!! 🙂

    • #44644
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      i noticed in alot of the other cars the same thing Panda, the paint must be done with a pro airbrush or something equivalent

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    • #44646
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yeah i picked up a motor from jaycar today…$2.50…and yeah basically u get what u pay for…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44653
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      lol .. well keep working on it GTAhh, there are a few motors on ebay.com.au .. check it out (i searched for kyosho and got them).

      27MHZ 3.5 Honda Accord (Custom Exhaust and F1 Wing)
      35MHZ 1.0 Battery Modded Castrol Supra
      45MHZ 2.2 Custom Painted Yellow and Black WRX
      57MHZ 2.6 Booster Trueno
      Mini Z Blue WRX (Lights, Gold alloys, Exhaust)
      Mini Z Castrol Supra + all mods (Coming)

    • #44662
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866
      Quote:
      i noticed in alot of the other cars the same thing Panda, the paint must be done with a pro airbrush or something equivalent

      Nah, it won’t be done by hand… skills like that don’t come cheap even if you’re manufacturing in China. Then there’s ISO quality control too – every item has to be of the *same* quality.

      There are machines now that can print onto 3D objects, so that’s probably what they use. Kyosho makes some superb 1/18 diecast model cars too, so it won’t be hard justifying the setup costs.

    • #44663
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Forgot to add… Tamiya now sells some prepainted bodies for their 1/10 cars. These are “printed” too, although I think they print it before the lexan is molded. Some of these shells are pretty spectacular eg Merc CLK “Original Teile” with the famous ripped-open engine details – won’t see anyone possibly handpainting that work of art.

      Some other printed ones are pretty boring… eg entirely “carbonfibre” patterned Altezza TRB001, Toyota MRS, Formula1 shells.

    • #44669
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      the jaycar motor was 100 turns of really thin wire, and the commutator is steel, with 4 brass leaf springs (2 on each side)…
      anyway I rewound it to 45T and tested it… I found that after running for 20+ minutes on 75%-100% throttle the FETS were packing enought heat to burn my lower lip…ouch
      I read that 43 turns is the absolute minimum number of turns but with 45 my FETs are getting toasty…I don’t want to run it for anylonger incase I fry em..so i think ill stick to 50T 🙁

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44673
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      The reason it’s 100 turns is because it is probably designed to run off 12 volts. Those bronze/copper brushes are shocking things once they begin to deal with a bit of current.

      The world is mine

    • #44680
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      yeah i think illl try and source some carbon brushes..

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44682
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      does anybody know how many turns with 36bs? is 36 thicker or thinner than 30bs? how do the sizes work? also i got the same chap 2 dolla eng. they said it is rated 3v. i wound 60 turns and it went o.k, chopped 10 winds ea off that and it went quick then slower than 60t…any help here?

    • #44683
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      36bs is thinner than 30bs….30bs guage wire is .25mm i think..how thinck is 36bs?

      where did you buy the wire from? I bought my wire from jaycar and it says 36bs on the reel but its actually 30bs, someone stuffed up somewhere…

      the cheap $2 motors have a conductive grease applied to stop arcing good idea but this grease slows the motor down alot..maybe try water dipping to clean all the crap out…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44692
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      yeah same wire, same store. dont know the size of 36bs when i wound it 2 60t the thing went sweet..took 10t’s off each to 50t and went slower…how mant turns did u do to your jaycar motor? what is the part code on your wire? ww???

    • #44693
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      part code is ww4012 which is 30bs 0.25mm guage…i spoke to the guy at jaycar and he said that someone stuffed up somewhere..if its marked as 36 guage in every store thats a preety big error…
      I wound my jaycar motor to 45T..not a good idea cause after 20min my fets get way too hot…im gonna rewind it to 50

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44719
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      dude(gt-a), in that motor i rekon its possible u cant go that low with amount of turns, cause when i dropped it from 60 to50 it ran like shit…maybe theres no exact turn amount…maybe it depends on the quality of the actual motor..as my z eng. looks “cleaner” than our cheap 2 bit jaycar”experimentals” does this sound right to anybody?

    • #44720
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      it should run at 50t…i guess it depends on how good u wind it… make sure you keep the winds neat and tight….dont snap the wire tho..also did you use 3 caps or only 2?

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44721
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      caps? ha! i didnt put any on, what r the no.’s? also one of my soldier jobs broke and wedged between the magnets. hence the running probs….so ill try again.

    • #44741
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      snipping off winds is probably gonna affect performance. The idea is to get as much wire on as possible, so if u want less turns, get thicker wire, rather than snip off wire.

      The world is mine

    • #44744
      charg-o-saurus
      Participant
      • Posts: 33

      j,using .25.

    • #44747
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      thats sweet 50T of 0.25mm wire should give you a noticable improvement in performance..
      the caps are 10nF ceramics…they say “103” on them..like the ones on the stock motor..solder one to each terminal and the can (like the stock motor), and one between both terminals…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44886
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      whoa! i rewound the jaycar motor to 50T and my FETs still get hell hot…whats going on?

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44887
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      What gearing are you using?
      That makes a difference…

    • #44891
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      the one that comes on the z…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44892
      PandaBear
      Participant
      • Posts: 1866

      Standard is 6t pinion I think.
      Larger pinions give higher top speed but make your motor work harder = hotter FETs.

    • #44899
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      so i should go lower?

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
      custom shells, mods and tips

    • #44901
      jamiekulhanek
      Participant
      • Posts: 2563

      It makes the car slower tho

      The world is mine

    • #44906
      Barrelll
      Participant
      • Posts: 675

      how quick is the motor going ??

      27MHZ 3.5 Honda Accord (Custom Exhaust and F1 Wing)
      35MHZ 1.0 Battery Modded Castrol Supra
      45MHZ 2.2 Custom Painted Yellow and Black WRX
      57MHZ 2.6 Booster Trueno
      Mini Z Blue WRX (Lights, Gold alloys, Exhaust)
      Mini Z Castrol Supra + all mods (Coming)

    • #44915
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      dunno..i dont have a timing beam…

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #44932
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      the 9 tooth gives u crazy speed, i use that ne a fair bit but i try to change my pinions a fair bit so i dont strip them..

      GT-ahh: i just got my X speed and a WHOLE bunch of hops ups, your fate is sealed…….:evil:

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    • #44933
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      that just gives me more incentive to put 2×5 fets in…then i can run a motor with 30T….

      http://gtahh.web1000.com/
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    • #45002
      Shypo
      Participant
      • Posts: 2339

      you need to go for a FET mission GT-ahh and bring sum back for me and then help me fit them lol

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    • #45003
      GT-ahh
      Participant
      • Posts: 774

      help you fit them? u mean u want me to do it?!

      http://www21.brinkster.com/gtahh/
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