HACHI-RYOKU
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Is that an HO on a ZZ or one of the new ZZ muscle cars.
Forgot something. Nimh actually do have a memory problem also, but it’s not even close to the nicads memory problem. It takes alot more to make a nimh battery remember it’s last charge and only charge to that much again.
Well, there are two sides to the maintenance of nicad and nimh. Nicads shouldn’t be charged half way and stored that way. The stock charger and most other chargers only charge the battery a certain percentage. It’s almost always never fully charged. This creates a problem when it comes to the batteries memory. A nicad remembers the half charge and may only charge half way for the rest of it’s life. Thankfully, the bit cars will drain the battery even when not in use so the battery never stays charged. So that cancels out the memory problem somewhat.
On the other side of the spectrum, this would be bad for a nimh battery, because if it’s stored with no charge it will screw up the chemicals in the battery and basically depreciate it slowly. Even with an on/off switch on a bit a nimh looses a little bit of charge every day, so unless you use it every now and then it still may loose it’s charge. The fact that most bits don’t have an on/off switch makes this more of a problem for nimh.
So, the statement that nicads are less maintenance for bits is true, but it’s most likely opposite for other electronics. UNLESS you install an on/off switch, or the bit comes with one already (some do).
It’s true. My cars with nimh have slowed down significantly after about 6 months of use. In fact I won’t even use nimh in my cars anymore unless it has an on/off switch. My nicads are still going strong.
Another side note, my soldered nimh batteries also start to rust from the solder paste if I don’t clean the paste off after I’m done soldering them. It’s hard to clean it all off on the positive end because of the little grooves the heated paste will go into. My nicads haven’t been doing this.
Yeah, I picked up 4 of those e-mails. It’s annoying, but I feel bad for tinyrc.
You know, hacking could be used in a positive way, but many people just like to screw with good things because it’s to hard to figure out real programming. It’s much easier to hit something that’s made for the public. Kinda like it’s easier to hit a little kid than a big kid.
It doesn’t impress me that somebody hacked something like tinyrc. But what does impress me is people who make things like tinyrc. That takes real work.
Well, I will give this one a shot, but it wont be soon. I have a lot of spare super bit pcb’s that are collecting dust, but I sent them to the states. I will be moving to the states soon and I mailed all my bit stuff ahead of me. I only have a few cars to keep me busy until then, and none of them are super bits. Will try in about a month or so though. It’s easily reversed if it doesn’t work. Sorry charge-man, I busted your nuts about “proof”, and now I can’t confirm your work for about a month. Stand by though, I will try this one out. I would love to fix thier reception problems. I’m almost positive they can be made better. It’s sad Tomy didn’t do it correctly to begin with.
Edited by – HACHI-RYOKU on 02 June 2004 00:34:36
Also, I never said, welcome to the forums.
Also, if your springs are magnetic, then they might be screwing with the magnetic steering system. I recomend brass springs.
I get them out of disposable cameras. You will only find a brass spring in like 1 out of 5. Don’t buy them, just ask a photo developement store for there used ones. Also, be careful if you do this, cause the cameras have a capacitor that will shock the piss out of you. Just take the battery out and short out the capacitor with a screw driver or something. then look for the spring around the shutter system. You’ll have to stretch them and trim off the ends, but they make awesome springs for the front wheels, and they are free.
Cool dudes, thanx for all the input.
Webshots is a good web-based picture holder that you can use to put a hyperlink in your post. I don’t use it cause it causes problems with certain files on my computer, but nobody else seems to have problems with this, so I think I’m just special in that catagory. Also, you can make a gallery and post pics directly from there.
Yeah, honestly it was a pain in my arse, posting all this stuff, but I remember seeing things like this and not being able to figure it out because something was missed. Thanx duder.
The pics are up! Thank you ph2t.
Another note, homefly doesn’t accept credit cards paypal payments, but I like the service anyways. Good prices and prompt service. He’s also got some other things that I noticed may have some potential for bit racing.
I also found a source for the ball bearings.
http://www.ncphobbies.com/cgi-bin/vcat/CatalogMgr.pl?cartID=b-2753&SearchField=all&SearchFor=ball%20bearings&offset=11&displayNumber=10&template=Htx/search.htx&displayNumber=1This site was previously noted for some good parts as well. Thank matic for the skinny on this one.
The original idea of using li-poly cells came from a dude named johnk from the micro rc resource center. He put them in a ZZ.
The ball bearings idea came from ze crazy Germans!
At least this is the first places that I noticed them.
Edited by – HACHI-RYOKU on 26 May 2004 01:51:13
OK fellow bit heads, this is a list of tools and parts that I used.
Needed for the li-poly battery instalation:
1. kokam lithium polymer 145 mah battery cell (source:http://homefly.com/)
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01161.JPG
2. extra wire
3. on/off switch (homefly.com)(basically, get the smallest one you can find)
4. xi li-poly battery charger (made by WES-Technik. homefly)
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01162.JPG
5. A stable 12 volt source (I use an ac wall adaptor from radio shack, but any 12 volt wall adaptor with 100+MA will work)
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01166.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01163.JPG
6. Soldering iron, solder, solder paste, a damp sponge and pick-ups/tweezers
7. electrical tape
8. an extra charging station
9. dremmel or any good rotary tool.
10. a good small file.
11. super glue
12. glue gun w/ glue (you can use any kind of cement/glue you want. I’ve recently found a glue gun to be very useful, although it would be cheaper to just use many many coats of super glueI had to cut of the contacts that the litium battery came with. I didn’t cut them off completely, I only trimmed them down to help it fit better. DON’T USE METAL SCISSORS. I shocked the piss out of myself when the scissors shorted out the terminals (DUH!). They come partially charged. I threw that battery away anyways. I had also decided to open it up and look inside. Don’t do that though. It may be hazardous material in there. Look at the link to see how I positioned the battery.
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/Lipoly2.JPG
I had to put it sideways and at an angle. The on/off switch is installed underneath it with super glue and glue gun. I dremmeled a small hole to access the on/off switch. I also dremelled a ton of space inside the battery compartment to accomadate the battery.
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01158.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01157.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01155.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01154.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01153.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01152.JPG
I folded the loose aluminum sides of the battery and wrapped it with a little electrical tape to help it fit better.As far as running this kind of battery, well it’s not as hard as it seems. The on/off switch is a MUST. Basically these bateries cannot go below about 3 volts or the battery will not recover. But, that’s supposedly easy to notice. Appearently, from info coming from a hand full of people that use them in r/c cars and r/c airplanes, you’ll know it’s time to recharge when it drops significantly in performance, i.e. the car slows way down. With proper use though, they will last much longer than nicads or nimh, and only loose about 5% of thier total capacity within a year of constant use. I haven’t done any all out sprinting or time trials with this battery yet, so you’ll have to stand by for that info. So far I’ve only taken it on casual stroles. I’m still perfecting it and watching things like fet tempuratures.
IMPORTANT NOTE- Most bit cars have a constant draw at all times on the battery. It’s only about 7 ma, but that will eventually drain the battery. If the li-poly cells are completely drained, they will not recover. That’s why I installed an on/off switch. This way I can turn off the power supplied to the car and spare the batteries. Look for some info on ph2t’s “dip switch”. It gives complete instructions on how to install an on/off switch. Basicaly, you just need to cut one of the wires coming from the battery and solder each end to an on/off switch. The switch just uses a peice of metal inside to connect the two wires together in the “on” position and again moves that piece of metal in the “off” position so that the wires aren’t connected. I like using a glue gun to position the switch because the super glue tends to get all over the place and you may get superglue in the switch. Certain superglues will conduct electricity, so even if you don’t accidently get some inside, you may still short out the system with superglue.
For the wheel mod:
modifiers toy car. I love these cars, because they came with two set of rims and tires, as well as a handfull of extra parts like mufflers and foils and stuff that have potential to be ripped off the cars and used for body modding. It’s sad really. Somebody put a lot of time to produce a quality toy and I disect it and throw away the un-needed parts before it even gets to see the light of day. I had to use my dremmel to get the wheels to fit on and also to make a little extra room in the wheel hubs. Not to difficult but you may prefer a small file.http://users.tpg.com.au/ph2t/HACHI-RYOKU/DSC01151.JPG
NOTE THE ON/OFF SWITCH BETWEEN THE TWO CHARGING TERMINALS.For the ball bearings:
Honestly, I forget. I’ve had them for a while. But there are plenty of places to find them. A good hobby store usually has them. They are common in slot cars and some slightly larger rc cars. I got one with a hollow hexed shaped axle because I figured it would hold on to the wheels and gears better. Again, I used the dremmel to make room for them, but I wouldn’t actually recomend this to other people. I am extremely skilled with a dremmel, so I can get away with this method. Otherwise, it’s very difficult to cut the precise measurements needed for the ball bearings to fit with a dremmel. My recomendation is a small file and lots of patience. Get a marker and draw exact cross hairs around the current axle position. Now file the hole so that the axle will be positioned in exactly the same spot. I also went ahead and threw a 3:1 gear ratio on the axle. I also did this with a dremmel. But I also had the perfect size bit to throw on the dremmel for these holes. Again, I would recomend a file and patience. If the hole for the gear or the wheel is off by just 1/2 of a mm, then the car will wobble and spin out all over the place.Also, the biff came from ph2t’s skilled hands.
Let me know if I missed anything or if you have any questions.
Edited by – HACHI-RYOKU on 26 May 2004 02:21:19
Hey, ph2t. I’ve been studying up on these batts and resistance. Am I correct to assume that a motor with no resistance will be the same as shorting a battery out and expecting the fets to handle it? That being said, would it be better to run a 3.0 than a 3.8 or 4.2 (to reduce heat)? Also, I picked up a motor recently that’s bigger than a bit motor, but only by a little. It’s about double the width and 25% longer. I was thinking of throwing one of these in a bit with a li-poly cell and some fets. Good or bad idea?
Mainly, the real question is; if I hardwire the motor to reduce resistance, will this create more heat on the transistors?
I’ll need to get betty k or someone to host my pics. Webshots is causing my computer problems and I can’t post on my gallery anymore.
I’ll PM betty-k, but I’ll be checking this later too, so if there are any volunteers to host my pics, then speak up now.
I will give every one the proper run-down of the tools and supplies used sometime tonight on the other posting about these batteries. Just look for the post on “Li-poly batteries in a bit/pht2 or ma please look”. Or you can do a search on the net for kokam 145mah batteries. I’ve also seen people use kokam 135mah batteries. They are almost the same but the 145’s can put out more juice. I am gonna pick up some 135’s though because they fit in a bit much much better. I had to make alot of extra space, with a dremmel, to fit the 145’s. They don’t sit flat for me either. I would like them to be as low as I can get them. The 135’s may put out enough juice. I haven’t really figured out how much juice a bit needs for the whole thing to run at top speed. I just know that the kokam batteries put out more than enough. The reason I say this is because there is a point where the motor just wont take any more current. This maximum current, added to the steerings maximum current would be the total current needed. Might add 10~15% on top of that because all circuits have resistance that may be unaccounted for. Especially cheap pcb’s like these.
I’ll also list the super cool cheap charger I got for the job. I deffinately recomend this charger. It’s very small and it’s one of the cheaper ones I’ve found. You don’t need an expensive recharger to recharge these tiny cells.
Actually I did put biff on it. But I only ran it in short bursts. As soon as the fets got warm, I stopped running it. I also tried a stock bit and stock cyclona pcb on it. Same symptoms. All those pcb’s couldn’t be wired incorrectly. That’s what gave me the idea of trouble shooting the rest of the systems with a multimeter. It still gets a little warm sometimes though. Just on one wire though. A close up exam on that wire reveals a little damage to the wire. Looks like a small cut or something. Easy fix. But I’m also going to hard wire the motor to reduce any excess resistance or possibility of an open via vibration. The motor is puting out enough juice to shake itself out of its compartment (yes, the motor cover is in place and tight). This may create a partial open and represent the symptoms. Biff is running it well though. I might change biff to a single stock cell car though. I’m a little worried about running it in that monster. Still need to work out some performance issues as well. Just finished perfecting the position on the miniture ball bearings I installed. They are great. Even though there is an amazing amount of power going to the back whells, the bearings keep the back axle super stable. It helps tremendously with keeping the car straight.
Sorry, not trying to be negative, but they are safe as long as you know what you’re doing. I also wrapped the battery with electrical tape and positioned the pcb in a manner that would shield it from heat.
Still, merc-blue has got a point. If you do use lithium batteries, then it’s very important that you read about them first. People have literally burnt their house down and accidently killed people with improper use.
Not a joke. One guy in Virginia tried to charge one with a nicad recharger. Not a smart thing to do. He burnt down his house and got himself and his family killed. When one of these batts catches on fire, it burns like white Phosphorous. You can’t put it out with water too. In fact I think water makes it burn more. Not sure on that tid-bit though. Some people even recharge them in a metal container just to be safe.
Basically, this is one of those things where you need to read the instructions and warnings. They are not dangerous with proper use. In fact, just about every new electronic device these days uses them. Cell phones, digital cameras, lap-tops, flashlights. In fact I recently went to a third world country, and they even had cheaply made cell phone with lithium batteries in them.
Yeah, but a bit isn’t going to pull that much current. The kokam 145mah batts can put out up to 1 amp safely. They can put out 1.3 amps in shorts bursts safely. That’s way more than you need. Also, I’m not going to be hitting it with a hammer any time soon.
To answer your question, I’ve seen as many as six crammed in a bit. The effects are not that great because the batts don’t put out as much current as other batts. 6 will put out more current, but it weighs way more. I’ve spent some time with these batts. I consider them useless. I put 4 in a bit and put it to the test. I raced it with a dual cell I had. The dual cell was using regular stock tomy batteries. The dual cell absolutely smoked the button cells. Puting in one button cell barely powers the car. Puting in two button cells is ok. Puting in three button cells makes it faster than a stock bit. But interestingly enough, puting in 4 button cells isn’t much different than puting in three. From what others have concluded with similar tests, it sounds like puting more cells in, after the third cell, really doesn’t give you that much gain. I think it just gets too heavy.
WOO-HOO! I got it running. I found out what the problem was and figured I should let you all know, because sooner or later someone might run into the same problem. IT WAS THE FRICKIN MOTOR. YES, THE MOTOR WAS DEFECTIVE. I changed the motor and it decided to work. This thing screams bloody murder now.
Basically, a motor has a minimal current that it needs in order to work. Something in my motor was broken and made the motor require way more current. I checked it with a volts meter. It had super high resistance (ohms). So if you try to power the motor without enough current then it may make something very hot, i.e. the fets. You wont notice this in cars with less power, because the smaller battery wont do much damage. But I am using a 3.7volt-145mah-1000ma battery (it will actually put out 1.3amps for short periods, i.e. <10sec). Plenty enough to cook with. I still have some tests to run it through, but I will post more info on it as soon as I can.
If any of you remember the quad cell I was having the same problem with, then I have to say that I may have been using the same motor. Now I know why my two fastest creations were killing pcb’s. By the way, it was a perfection 3.8. This is the only one that has ever caused me any problems, and their motors usually run better than any other motor I have, so I wont loose faith in that company yet. But it’s definately got me a little causious now.
Edited by – HACHI-RYOKU on 24 May 2004 21:02:12
Actually, the only ones I’ve seen are nimh, and they’re finicky to charge. If you want an amazing battery, then try a “kokam” 145mah li-poly. You have to buy a special charger for it, but it’s relatively cheap. The batts are pretty cheap too. I recently perfected a car with a 145mah li-poly, and it’s definately the fastest car I have. I Will post digital speed checks soon. Anyways, the kokam 145mah li-poly bat is 3.7volts and can put out 1 amp. That’s 1000ma!, wich is way more than the car needs. So no more slowing down while turning. I’ll give some more in depth news on it soon. I just got it running today. Make sure you study up on the li-poly cells before you use them. They are wonderfull batteries, but have special needs. You’ll definately need to install an on-off switch for one.
OOH, me first! NOT!!!!
Just curious, who’s got the longest topic? You mean long winded, most replies or something different? I know I can be long winded.
No problem man. I knew where to find you. Thanx again. I’m definately gonna order some more for a couple of other operations. Do you think biff can cure my fet burning problem I recently posted about? I don’t think it will, but you don’t know untill you ask.
Thanx betty. That was perfect.
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